> In Message-ID:<comadrejoagua-E1049C.09573006112...@nntp.charter.net> > posted on > Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:57:30 -0800, comadrejo wrote: Begin
>>I always take a grain of salt >>when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>their actions.
> That assumes he had a religious motivation > and not just frustrated nonspecific rage. > And I too use that allegorical 'grain of salt' > seeing as how my awareness of such events > always comes via sensationalism oriented media.
CNN just reported that they talked to the Imam of the shooter's mosque. The Imam said that the shooter approached him about finding a suitable wife, but "this was not successful."
I'm also thinking that this guy's problems were far more personal than political. Mulan
okerry wrote: > "Bart Bailey" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:4af780f9.2559765@bart.spawar.mil... >> In Message-ID:<comadrejoagua-E1049C.09573006112...@nntp.charter.net> >> posted on >> Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:57:30 -0800, comadrejo wrote: Begin
>>> I always take a grain of salt >>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>> their actions. >> That assumes he had a religious motivation >> and not just frustrated nonspecific rage. >> And I too use that allegorical 'grain of salt' >> seeing as how my awareness of such events >> always comes via sensationalism oriented media.
> CNN just reported that they talked to the Imam of the shooter's mosque. The > Imam said that the shooter approached him about finding a suitable wife, but > "this was not successful."
> I'm also thinking that this guy's problems were far more personal than > political.
> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) > and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive > Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly perpetuated.
> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a > smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American > problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt > when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for > their actions.
> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some > significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, > who make excuses for their problems.
Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the religion?
>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) >> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly perpetuated.
>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt >> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >> their actions.
>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, >> who make excuses for their problems.
> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. > Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the > religion?
I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily money and power.
I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, they can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. I hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they put his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. I am hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist (then resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), blah blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial position or religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly right - loser does as losers do. End of story.
Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-)
> In article > <abd56e67-7fad-4fa2-af56-c8c9bf324...@o9g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,
> M <m...@pitt.edu> wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2:42 pm, comadrejo <comadrejoa...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > I am not saying that all military doctors are bad, but the standards > > > to practice are lower. Much like he has had psychiatric residency and > > > post residency speciality, but he still shouldn't call himself a > > > psychiatrist. If he passes the requirements of the APBN, then he should > > > can call himself a psychiatrist, a psychiatrist who killed 12 innocent > > > people and court martial and executed by the US Army.
> > I'm not sure if I'm interpretting you correctly, but I get the > > impression you think he was not-quite-with the program as far as being > > a physician.
> No, He is a physician. There is no doubt, about that. He is Dr. > Hasan MD, MPH.
> I am kind of alarmed that he is calling himself a psychiatrist or > allowed to have patients as a non supervised, post residency, non ABPN > board certified psychiatrist. All his training and residencies should > lead up to passing ABPN certification. I am not questioning his > education or his medical residencies, I am questioning if he was > practicing as a psychiatrist without ABPN approval.
> > The links you point to seem to say just the opposite.
> No, they don't, bozo. I have stated he isn't ABPN certified. and > provided a link to that effect, geez.
> > Usually someone who has finished theri residency, plus a two-year > > fellowship is considered to be at the top of the game. In > > anesthesilogy, verteran physicans taht have proacticed in a > > subspecialty for years, but didn't have a fellowship, defer to those > > that have recently completed a fellowship.
> > He finished his fellowship this year (which probably means June 30). > > It isn't unusual to go a up to a year without taking the board > > examination. It would be more common for someone to take a few months > > than for someone to finish a fellowship and take the boards > > immediately.
> > It's common to refer to anyone who has started their residency program > > as a specialist. A first-year anesthesiology resident is an > > anesthesiologist first year surgery resident is a surgeon. Standard > > practice.
> Oh come on. Any license medical doctor can call themselves whatever he > or she damn pleases, whether neuro surgeon to plastic surgeon, even > though they aren't board certified in those specialities.
> A first year medical resident shouldn't be calling themselves a thoracic > surgeon, nor taking clients on their own. They are still in training. I > am not stating they are incompetent, I am questioning their title and > their expertise. I am also questioning if their patients are getting > good care from non board certified specialists.
> > Obviously, there was a lot wrong with the guy, but his medical > > credentials are in order.
> No, they are not in order. Period. Full Stop. He is a licensed > medical physician. He is close in being a psychiatrist, but he isn't a > psychiatrist, yet. He hasn't crossed the finish line yet, he was close, > but he still should had been certified by the ABPN.
Comadrajoa, you are simply mistaken here.
Any psychiatrist would refer to Hasan as a psychiatrist.
Of 1249 psychiatrist job listings I foud with a search engine 809 specified "or board eligible." Unless I am mistaken, he has two years in which he is "board eligible".
Unless I misread the schedule on the ABPN site, he would be hard put to get the opportunity to pass his boards before January.
This, of course, could have been a element of stress for him.
>>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) >>> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >>> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly >>> perpetuated.
>>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >>> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >>> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt >>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>> their actions.
>>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >>> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, >>> who make excuses for their problems.
>> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. >> Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the >> religion?
> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by > hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant > violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily money > and power.
> I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to > pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, they > can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. I > hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they put > his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
> Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. I am > hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist (then > resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), blah > blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial position or > religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly right - > loser does as losers do. End of story.
> Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-)
You're right. In fact, he's so much of a loser, he obviously didn't join the military until he was close to the age limit at the time.... then, it was just all "too hard".
I find it hard to understand why he was promoted to Major, when the average officer doesn't make it past Captain. When his reviews were so poor, and while he was under investigation. A CNN report today talked about how he was so bad at what he did, he wasn't known to have many patients.
But....we need to remember some things:
The Army doesn't care if he's board-certified when they're paying for his education and his salary thereafter. His job is to do what they want him to do.
His job, as an active-duty psychiatrist/counselor to active- duty military, is to keep the fighting troops (primarily enlisted men) on the job regardless of their stress level.
After the men leave the service, the VA (and private doctors) take over any PTSD treatment.
On Nov 6, 4:24 pm, comadrejo <comadrejoa...@mac.com> wrote:
> I am kind of alarmed that he is calling himself a psychiatrist or > allowed to have patients as a non supervised, post residency, non ABPN > board certified psychiatrist.
Don't be.
It is not at all unsual for someone to start a position after tehy finish their fellowship and take their board at a later date.
If you find it alarming, do go to any US medical clinics.
It's possible that the prospect of taking his board exams was alarming to him - they are a stress for anyone who takes them - but he isn't particularly behind schedule.
He finished his fellowship in June. It isn't even clear to me that he could have completed both the written and oral parts of the examination by now.
Type "Board certified" then "board certified/board eligible" into a search engine. You will see about 2/3 of the postitions for US medical specialties are open for people who have not passed their boards yet.
>>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) >>> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >>> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly >>> perpetuated.
>>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >>> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >>> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt >>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>> their actions.
>>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >>> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, >>> who make excuses for their problems.
>> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. >> Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the >> religion?
> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by > hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant > violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily money > and power.
> I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to > pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, they > can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. I > hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they put > his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
> Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. I am > hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist (then > resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), blah > blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial position or > religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly right - > loser does as losers do. End of story.
> Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-)
I thought I read that he'd tried to leave the service early but wasn't allowed? I don't know how that works, but it's always been my impression that one isn't allowed to walk in one day and day, I quit. I've heard of resigning one's commission... but this guy probably was obligated to stay in due to the extension education paid for by the military?
Reminds me of the bullying we hear about in high schools. This guy was bullied by fellow officers, poor baby. He sure showed them.
>>>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) >>>> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >>>> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly >>>> perpetuated.
>>>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >>>> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >>>> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt >>>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>>> their actions.
>>>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >>>> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, >>>> who make excuses for their problems. >>> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. >>> Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the >>> religion?
>> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by >> hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant >> violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily money >> and power.
>> I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to >> pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, they >> can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. I >> hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they put >> his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
>> Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. I am >> hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist (then >> resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), blah >> blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial position or >> religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly right - >> loser does as losers do. End of story.
>> Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-)
> I thought I read that he'd tried to leave the service early but wasn't > allowed? I don't know how that works, but it's always been my impression > that one isn't allowed to walk in one day and day, I quit. I've heard of > resigning one's commission... but this guy probably was obligated to stay in > due to the extension education paid for by the military?
> Reminds me of the bullying we hear about in high schools. This guy was > bullied by fellow officers, poor baby. He sure showed them.
> jc
Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you have to stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could leave, but decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other bennies? who knows). He was in Texas, located in the US - he could just walk away and suck up the losses.
>>>>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public Health) >>>>> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >>>>> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly >>>>> perpetuated.
>>>>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >>>>> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >>>>> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of salt >>>>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive for >>>>> their actions.
>>>>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >>>>> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree killers, >>>>> who make excuses for their problems. >>>> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. >>>> Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the >>>> religion?
>>> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by >>> hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant >>> violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily money >>> and power.
>>> I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to >>> pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, they >>> can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. I >>> hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they put >>> his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
>>> Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. I am >>> hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist (then >>> resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), blah >>> blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial position or >>> religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly right - >>> loser does as losers do. End of story.
>>> Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-) >> You're right. In fact, he's so much of a loser, he obviously didn't >> join the military until he was close to the age limit at the time.... >> then, it was just all "too hard".
> I think he has been in the military most of his adult life, he enlisted. > after a couple years in his mid to late 20s he went to VA Tech. There > is some conflict whether he graduated in 1995 or 1997. Va Tech has > stated he graduated in 1995. He may had join the military for the GI > Montgomery bill benefits, I don't know....
>> I find it hard to understand why he was promoted to Major, when >> the average officer doesn't make it past Captain. When his reviews >> were so poor, and while he was under investigation. A CNN >> report today talked about how he was so bad at what he did, >> he wasn't known to have many patients.
> Military Medical officers get mid officer rank right off the bat, they > just have their own separate chain of command, Most of the time, they > don't pull rank within the same service and those not in the medical > services. Besides their military training is minimal compare to their > medical training. >> But....we need to remember some things:
>> The Army doesn't care if he's board-certified when they're >> paying for his education and his salary thereafter. His job >> is to do what they want him to do.
> The Military should care, because soldiers and their families deserve > uniform and high standard care. Half of good medical doctors are > reviews and someone critiquing his or her work. Board certification is > not a panacea, or would prevent this tragedy. However big red flags pop > up when a medical doctor with a disaster and preventative speciality, > goes on a spree killing, something is seriously wrong. His training is > to counsel people in this situations he just created....
> I would have no problem if he was working a resident, or he was under > post residency supervision before he was board certified, I would have > a problem if he had a full caseload with little supervision.
>> His job, as an active-duty psychiatrist/counselor to active- >> duty military, is to keep the fighting troops (primarily >> enlisted men) on the job regardless of their stress level.
> His job should be to do no harm. If he was stressed, depressed or > anxious about his work or deployment, he should had petition for a > discharge, or his direct supervisor should detect something wasn't right.
> I am not making excuses for Dr. Hasan, but I think he was between two > different worlds, and was having huge problems to being accepted in > either one.
No offense CJ, but tough shit. Cops, firefighters, EMTs, LOTS of jobs suck really bad and are hard, stressful, and can make one feel like an outsider. Also there are life issues that make people outsiders. I am really sorry but I can't accept this crap where they kill innocent people because they can't fit in. I was a misfit. I didn't do that - and trust me - I was a TOTAL misfit. I have zero sympathy for such rejects.
Bart Bailey wrote: > In Message-ID:<7ljnu4F3ds38...@mid.individual.net> posted on Fri, 06 Nov 2009 > 17:57:07 -0500, Poe wrote: Begin
>> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by >> hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant >> violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily >> money and power.
> Plus they finesse this hopelessness > with a promise of a better situation in Jannah
The 72 (hairy bearded virgins) thing?
I had this great marketing idea tonight after that retard in TX. Tell me whatcha think. I'd like to create a line of anti-jihad products - e.g. a latrine with a given name... (say, bin Laden) with a little face at the back and a target like those ones at the carnival. Maybe even tie it in with rewards, like hit the target for x length of time, and get a corresponding credit on the next beer. OR - I was thinking of ObL cat litter - with his bearded mug on the package, and a certain % ground Qur’an as the absorbent material. My only worry is, can I make more money than I spend on security?
> Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you have to > stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could leave, but > decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other bennies? who knows). He > was in Texas, located in the US - he could just walk away and suck up the > losses.
Desertion is a felony, punishable through the court martial process and would put him in federal prison for years if convicted. Even an AWOL (leaving for up to 30 days) could have the same penalty as desertion, for an officer who hasn't fulfilled his basic service obligation.
Too bad he didn't try. I'm sure he has a long life of failure at many jobs behind him.
>> Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you have >> to stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could leave, but >> decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other bennies? who >> knows). He was in Texas, located in the US - he could just walk away >> and suck up the losses.
> Desertion is a felony, punishable through the court martial > process and would put him in federal prison for years if > convicted. Even an AWOL (leaving for up to 30 days) > could have the same penalty as desertion, for an officer > who hasn't fulfilled his basic service obligation.
> Too bad he didn't try. I'm sure he has a long life of > failure at many jobs behind him.
> Kris
Fair enough, I didn't realize that. But if he was Muslim and had this big problem going to kill others, it seems like he might have gotten off the hook. I just don't know. Still, his dreading going IMO can't compare to going and coming back. I have a couple kids in the family who saw WAY too much, and I just can't forgive the one who kills the others before he even has that damage.
> I think he has been in the military most of his adult life, he enlisted. > after a couple years in his mid to late 20s he went to VA Tech. There > is some conflict whether he graduated in 1995 or 1997. Va Tech has > stated he graduated in 1995. He may had join the military for the GI > Montgomery bill benefits, I don't know....
You're right. He started as an enlistee after high school, then "bootstrapped". He may have had a break in service (we don't know).
>> The Army doesn't care if he's board-certified when they're >> paying for his education and his salary thereafter. His job >> is to do what they want him to do.
> The Military should care, because soldiers and their families deserve > uniform and high standard care. Half of good medical doctors are > reviews and someone critiquing his or her work. Board certification is > not a panacea, or would prevent this tragedy. However big red flags pop > up when a medical doctor with a disaster and preventative speciality, > goes on a spree killing, something is seriously wrong. His training is > to counsel people in this situations he just created....
> I would have no problem if he was working a resident, or he was under > post residency supervision before he was board certified, I would have > a problem if he had a full caseload with little supervision.
>> His job, as an active-duty psychiatrist/counselor to active- >> duty military, is to keep the fighting troops (primarily >> enlisted men) on the job regardless of their stress level.
> His job should be to do no harm. If he was stressed, depressed or > anxious about his work or deployment, he should had petition for a > discharge, or his direct supervisor should detect something wasn't right.
> I am not making excuses for Dr. Hasan, but I think he was between two > different worlds, and was having huge problems to being accepted in > either one.
What should be, and what the military needs from their fighting men, are two different things in the field. If the job of the in-field psychiatrist/counselor was to just take care of the guys, the guys could be shipped out to a counseling/hospital center.
But having it in-field, is like a mobile hospital "patch up", where they try to keep the guys working.
I spent too many years around the military, almost ten during the VietNam war period, and knew the stories the men had to tell. And they weren't combatants; they were Air Force flyers and enlisted.
>>> Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you have to >>> stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could leave, but >>> decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other bennies? who knows). >>> He was in Texas, located in the US - he could just walk away and suck up >>> the losses.
>> Desertion is a felony, punishable through the court martial >> process and would put him in federal prison for years if >> convicted. Even an AWOL (leaving for up to 30 days) >> could have the same penalty as desertion, for an officer >> who hasn't fulfilled his basic service obligation.
>> Too bad he didn't try. I'm sure he has a long life of >> failure at many jobs behind him.
>> Kris
> Fair enough, I didn't realize that. But if he was Muslim and had this big > problem going to kill others, it seems like he might have gotten off the > hook. I just don't know. Still, his dreading going IMO can't compare to > going and coming back. I have a couple kids in the family who saw WAY too > much, and I just can't forgive the one who kills the others before he even > has that damage.
I agree. With his training, he *should have been* able to pull the right strings to get a medical retirement. He enlisted out of high school, and could have already had 20 years in. Hell, he was at Walter Reed -- that's one of the places they process these kinds of cases! http://militarydef.com/pages/lawyers-corner/know-about-physical-evalu...
One thing: evidently, he did have at least one clear case of harrassment against him. It doesn't excuse a damned thing he did, but the old "just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you" applies here:
"A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred for prosecution, according to the report."
> > Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you have to > > stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could leave, but > > decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other bennies? who knows). He > > was in Texas, located in the US - he could just walk away and suck up the > > losses.
> Desertion is a felony, punishable through the court martial > process and would put him in federal prison for years if > convicted. Even an AWOL (leaving for up to 30 days) > could have the same penalty as desertion, for an officer > who hasn't fulfilled his basic service obligation.
> Too bad he didn't try. I'm sure he has a long life of > failure at many jobs behind him.
Thius is what is puzzling to me. Most mass killers are clear losers. I mean, it's not clear they are going to take a lot of people out, but they are on no road to success.
Hasan may have had a few failures, just like anyone, but usually getting into a US medical school and getting though through it is considered a massive success. He got through residencey and a post doctoral fellowship.
The reasons that he did these murders did not include failure in his field.
Comadrejoa was right that he has, not yet passed his boards, but he had to pass 3 or 4 tests that were at least as hard -and have much higher failure rates - to get to where he is, as well as a few dozen minor tests. He had not been out of training long enough so that not having passed his boards yet would be an issue.
It wouldn't really make sense for it to be about anxiety over the board tests - unless something had happened to him neurologically in the 6 years or so since he last had a major exam.
It's hard to imagine something like a stroke happening and it not being apparent to the people in his clinical fellowship. Neurology is part of their specialty. Unless he had a minor stroke, or similar event, that only marginally diminished his capacities, but HE recognized that he was going to have problems.
Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower sniper, had a brain tumor, but he had other bad things happening in his life too.
So, one possibilty is a brain lesion. Seems highly unlikely, but so do other explanations. Just putting it out, won't argue either way.
>>>> Just like private corporations have "golden handcuffs" where you >>>> have to stay IF you want the stock options or whatever. He could >>>> leave, but decided not to for whatever reason (tuition? other >>>> bennies? who knows). He was in Texas, located in the US - he could >>>> just walk away and suck up the losses.
>>> Desertion is a felony, punishable through the court martial >>> process and would put him in federal prison for years if >>> convicted. Even an AWOL (leaving for up to 30 days) >>> could have the same penalty as desertion, for an officer >>> who hasn't fulfilled his basic service obligation.
>>> Too bad he didn't try. I'm sure he has a long life of >>> failure at many jobs behind him.
>>> Kris
>> Fair enough, I didn't realize that. But if he was Muslim and had this >> big problem going to kill others, it seems like he might have gotten >> off the hook. I just don't know. Still, his dreading going IMO can't >> compare to going and coming back. I have a couple kids in the family >> who saw WAY too much, and I just can't forgive the one who kills the >> others before he even has that damage.
> I agree. With his training, he *should have been* able to > pull the right strings to get a medical retirement. He enlisted > out of high school, and could have already had 20 years in. > Hell, he was at Walter Reed -- that's one of the places they > process these kinds of cases! > http://militarydef.com/pages/lawyers-corner/know-about-physical-evalu...
> One thing: evidently, he did have at least one clear > case of harrassment against him. It doesn't excuse a > damned thing he did, but the old "just because you're > paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you" > applies here:
> "A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates > that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been > scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated > $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van > de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged > with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred > for prosecution, according to the report."
>> One thing: evidently, he did have at least one clear >> case of harrassment against him. It doesn't excuse a >> damned thing he did, but the old "just because you're >> paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you" >> applies here:
>> "A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates >> that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been >> scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated >> $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van >> de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged >> with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred >> for prosecution, according to the report."
"Apartment manager John Thompson said Friday that he reported the situation to police after the girlfriend of then-resident John van de Walker told him that he did it. Thompson said he saw van de Walker apologize to Hasan and that a police report was filed. He added that the bumper sticker said "Allah is Love" in Arabic, but that van de Walker knew that Hasan was Muslim before seeing it. Thompson said the last time he asked Hasan about the incident, Hasan said he was still waiting for reparations for damage to his 2006 Honda Civic."
>> >>>>> He wasn't ABPN certified. He has a MPH, (Master in Public >> >>>>> Health) >> >>>>> and his speciality/post residency was Disaster and Preventive >> >>>>> Psychiatry, like handling the type of massacres he allegedly >> >>>>> perpetuated.
>> >>>>> My speculative guess, is that the his religious affiliation is a >> >>>>> smokescreen for his problems,, he was dealing with common American >> >>>>> problems: he was lonely and depressed. I always take a grain of >> >>>>> salt >> >>>>> when spree killers use a religious or political group as a motive >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> their actions.
>> >>>>> He wanted to commit suicide, but wanted to go out with some >> >>>>> significance and notoriety. He was more like the many spree >> >>>>> killers, >> >>>>> who make excuses for their problems. >> >>>> Same could probably be said for suicide bombers in the Middle East. >> >>>> Isn't the terrorism a result of other problems and not just the >> >>>> religion?
>> >>> I think terrorist soldiers from the Middle East are driven by >> >>> hopelessness - many of them know nothing but mud shacks and constant >> >>> violence. I think the leaders benefit in a bunch of ways, primarily >> >>> money >> >>> and power.
>> >>> I think homegrown (US) terrorists are basically failures who want to >> >>> pretend they have a greater cause - but really, they are just losers, >> >>> they >> >>> can't produce, they're slow learners, they have bad breath, whatever. >> >>> I >> >>> hope if/when this particular inept loser comes out of his coma they >> >>> put >> >>> his paralyzed ass in prison for all to enjoy.
>> >>> Finally, I think everyone needs to stop making excuses for this shit. >> >>> I >> >>> am >> >>> hearing various things about how hard it is to be a psychologist >> >>> (then >> >>> resign), or how he didn't want to kill other Muslims (then resign), >> >>> blah >> >>> blah blah. If some random, non-affiliated with a controversial >> >>> position >> >>> or >> >>> religion person did the same thing everyone would get it exactly >> >>> right - >> >>> loser does as losers do. End of story.
>> >>> Wiping spittle from my chin... thanks for listening :-) >> >> You're right. In fact, he's so much of a loser, he obviously didn't >> >> join the military until he was close to the age limit at the time.... >> >> then, it was just all "too hard".
>> > I think he has been in the military most of his adult life, he >> > enlisted. >> > after a couple years in his mid to late 20s he went to VA Tech. There >> > is some conflict whether he graduated in 1995 or 1997. Va Tech has >> > stated he graduated in 1995. He may had join the military for the GI >> > Montgomery bill benefits, I don't know....
>> >> I find it hard to understand why he was promoted to Major, when >> >> the average officer doesn't make it past Captain. When his reviews >> >> were so poor, and while he was under investigation. A CNN >> >> report today talked about how he was so bad at what he did, >> >> he wasn't known to have many patients.
>> > Military Medical officers get mid officer rank right off the bat, they >> > just have their own separate chain of command, Most of the time, they >> > don't pull rank within the same service and those not in the medical >> > services. Besides their military training is minimal compare to their >> > medical training. >> >> But....we need to remember some things:
>> >> The Army doesn't care if he's board-certified when they're >> >> paying for his education and his salary thereafter. His job >> >> is to do what they want him to do.
>> > The Military should care, because soldiers and their families deserve >> > uniform and high standard care. Half of good medical doctors are >> > reviews and someone critiquing his or her work. Board certification is >> > not a panacea, or would prevent this tragedy. However big red flags >> > pop >> > up when a medical doctor with a disaster and preventative speciality, >> > goes on a spree killing, something is seriously wrong. His training is >> > to counsel people in this situations he just created....
>> > I would have no problem if he was working a resident, or he was under >> > post residency supervision before he was board certified, I would have >> > a problem if he had a full caseload with little supervision.
>> >> His job, as an active-duty psychiatrist/counselor to active- >> >> duty military, is to keep the fighting troops (primarily >> >> enlisted men) on the job regardless of their stress level.
>> > His job should be to do no harm. If he was stressed, depressed or >> > anxious about his work or deployment, he should had petition for a >> > discharge, or his direct supervisor should detect something wasn't >> > right.
>> > I am not making excuses for Dr. Hasan, but I think he was between two >> > different worlds, and was having huge problems to being accepted in >> > either one.
>> No offense CJ, but tough shit. Cops, firefighters, EMTs, LOTS of jobs >> suck really bad and are hard, stressful, and can make one feel like an >> outsider. Also there are life issues that make people outsiders. I am >> really sorry but I can't accept this crap where they kill innocent >> people because they can't fit in. I was a misfit. I didn't do that - and >> trust me - I was a TOTAL misfit. I have zero sympathy for such rejects.
> I am not making excuses for him, I am trying figure out the motive, > whether I am very wrong or not. It has nothing to do with my feelings > about what happened. It was a spree killing and a tragedy. A soldier > that was pregnant with her first child was murdered, besides 12 others.
> If Dr. Hasan did this, and the evidence appear pretty prima facie > that he did, I am just speculating on what went on in his head. Okay?!? > he is a spree killer, a label below the label of child molester, and > above bot fly larvae.
It rather sounds like he had failed or performed poorly at so many things in life, that maybe he thought he'd finally found something he could succeed at - being a jihadist and ending up in heaven. Wait until he wakes up in San Antonio. okerry
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