> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> conference.
“I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the only bomb sanctioned
by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in the truest and highest
sense.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 15, 1:05 pm, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> > proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> > conference.
So, Don, isn't Obama finally acting in the manner you've been wanting
> him to?
Um, not quite. It is nice to have him demand the release of political
prisoners even if it is indirectly. I'm still hoping all this global
warming foofery and cap and trade madness will just go away. If any
new Kyoto like treaty is signed countries will cheat to do what they
want. I don't get the push for a new treaty right now anyway; due to
the recession emissions are way down and likely to stay that way for
the next several years and by then we'll have a more realistic handle
on this climate change 'science.' Honestly I haven't been paying that
close attention as I think it's not important. Main stream public
opinion seems to be finally lining up with me on this. I thought it
would happen sooner.
> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> conference.
Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
for us here in the states.
> On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
>> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
>> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
>> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
>> conference.
> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> for us here in the states.
> dj
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> >> conference.
I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
>> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
>> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
>> for us here in the states.
>> dj
>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
>> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
>> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
>> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
>> >> conference.
“… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
fine.” – DJ
That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
propaganda and infomercials.
“Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> dj
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> >> for us here in the states.
> >> dj
> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> >> >> conference.
Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
head exploded back then too.
When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
jealous.
> “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> fine.” – DJ
> That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> propaganda and infomercials.
> “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
>> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
>> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
>> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
>> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
>> dj
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
>> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
>> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
>> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
>> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
>> >> for us here in the states.
>> >> dj
>> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
>> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
>> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
>> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
>> >> >> conference.
“…When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up a-
caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. …” – DJ
Thank you Don, you have made my point even better than I did!
On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> head exploded back then too.
> When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> jealous.
> > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> > fine.” – DJ
> > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > propaganda and infomercials.
> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> >> dj
> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> >> >> for us here in the states.
> >> >> dj
> >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
> >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> >> >> >> conference.
Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
that the castration of government and the freeing of business
interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
to be served optimally.
Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
competition to serve us.
You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
"us".
Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> head exploded back then too.
> When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> jealous.
> > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> > fine.” – DJ
> > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > propaganda and infomercials.
> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> >> dj
> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> >> >> for us here in the states.
> >> >> dj
> >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime Minister.
> >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> >> >> >> conference.
Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
that?
On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> to be served optimally.
> Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> competition to serve us.
> You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> "us".
> Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> > exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> > asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> > online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> > head exploded back then too.
> > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> > jealous.
> > dj
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
> > > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> > > fine.” – DJ
> > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > > propaganda and infomercials.
> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> > >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> > >> dj
> > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> > >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> > >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> > >> >> for us here in the states.
> > >> >> dj
> > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime
Minister.
> > >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> > >> >> >> conference.
You make a mistake if you interpret our interests that way. We are not
like the stereotype.
It is true that we have a kind of ignorant streak up the middle of the
country but even there in the midwest you are wrong. Some of those
people are as nice as warm apple pie.
We technically are not even a country.
We are you. You are looking in the mirror.
Good luck helping God. Be careful you don't serve the devil! ;)
On Nov 17, 1:45 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
> globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
> more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
> more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
> ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
> of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
> see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
> al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
> that?
> On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> > is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> > regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> > regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> > government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> > business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> > that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> > interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> > to be served optimally.
> > Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> > the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> > their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> > their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> > Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> > thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> > served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> > the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> > competition to serve us.
> > You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> > caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> > steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> > then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> > heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> > of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> > power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> > system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> > clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> > elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> > "us".
> > Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> > head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> > with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> > back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> > compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> > more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> > would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> > Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> > On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> > > exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> > > asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> > > online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> > > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> > > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> > > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> > > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> > > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> > > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> > > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> > > head exploded back then too.
> > > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> > > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> > > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> > > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> > > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> > > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> > > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> > > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> > > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> > > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> > > jealous.
> > > dj
> > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
> > > > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> > > > fine.” – DJ
> > > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > > > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > > > propaganda and infomercials.
> > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> > > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> > > >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> > > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> > > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> > > >> dj
> > > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> > > >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> > > >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> > > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> > > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> > > >> >> for us here in the states.
> > > >> >> dj
> > > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> > Or maybe you like this one better :-)
> > > >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> > >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime
> Minister.
> > > >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> > > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> > > >> >> >> conference.
Thank you for your well meant advice, but you can keep your Michael
Moore and your Sarah Palin. In return we will keep our Hitler and our
Neuschwanstein. Deal?
On 17 Nov., 12:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You make a mistake if you interpret our interests that way. We are not
> like the stereotype.
> It is true that we have a kind of ignorant streak up the middle of the
> country but even there in the midwest you are wrong. Some of those
> people are as nice as warm apple pie.
> We technically are not even a country.
> We are you. You are looking in the mirror.
> Good luck helping God. Be careful you don't serve the devil! ;)
> On Nov 17, 1:45 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
> > globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
> > more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
> > more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
> > ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
> > of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
> > see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
> > al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
> > that?
> > On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> > > is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> > > regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> > > regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> > > government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> > > business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> > > that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> > > interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> > > to be served optimally.
> > > Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> > > the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> > > their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> > > their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> > > Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> > > thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> > > served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> > > the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> > > competition to serve us.
> > > You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> > > caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> > > steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> > > then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> > > heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> > > of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> > > power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> > > system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> > > clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> > > elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> > > "us".
> > > Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> > > head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> > > with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> > > back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> > > compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> > > more
conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> > > would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> > > Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> > > On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> > > >exxploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> > > > asswards. Reminds me of last year during he ccampaigning when I went
> > > onlinne to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> > > > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> > > > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> > > > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> > > > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> > > > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> > > > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> > > > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> > > > head exploded back then too.
> > > > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> > > > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> > > > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> >> > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> > > > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> > > > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> > > > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> > > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> > > > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> > > > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> > > > jealous.
> > > > dj
> > > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamntallmind
> > > > > “… As long as the Fourth Esate retains itt's freedom we'll be just
> > > > > fine.” – DJ
> > > > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > > > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > > > > time nw and hae no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > > > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > > > > propaganda and infomercials.
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> > > > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> > > >>>>a feew times when peaaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> > > > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> > > > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> > > > >> dj
> > > > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> > > > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chrmrn ObObama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> > > > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> > > > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> > > > >> >> for us here in the states.
> > > > >> >> dj
> > > > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > Or maybe you like isis one better :-)
> > >>>>> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> > > > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> > > > >> >> >> conference.
Good post Justin. I'm well aware of the merits of your position on
this issue. I believe it is the most common one and I agree with most
of what you're saying. I think the problem wasn't not enough
regulation but too much BAD regulation(Sarbanes-Oxley for instance)
and extremely poor policing of the good regulation.
Excerpt from NYT's article by Niall Ferguson
"Human beings are as good at devising ex post facto explanations for
big disasters as they are bad at anticipating those disasters. It is
indeed impressive how rapidly the economists who failed to predict
this crisis — or predicted the wrong crisis (a dollar crash) — have
been able to produce such a satisfying story about its origins. Yes,
it was all the fault of deregulation.
There are just three problems with this story. First, deregulation
began quite a while ago (the Depository Institutions Deregulation and
Monetary Control Act was passed in 1980). If deregulation is to blame
for the recession that began in December 2007, presumably it should
also get some of the credit for the intervening growth. Second, the
much greater financial regulation of the 1970s failed to prevent the
United States from suffering not only double-digit inflation in that
decade but also a recession (between 1973 and 1975) every bit as
severe and protracted as the one we’re in now. Third, the continental
Europeans — who supposedly have much better-regulated financial
sectors than the United States — have even worse problems in their
banking sector than we do. The German government likes to wag its
finger disapprovingly at the “Anglo Saxon” financial model, but last
year average bank leverage was four times higher in Germany than in
the United States. Schadenfreude will be in order when the German
banking crisis strikes.
…
The reality is that crises are more often caused by bad regulation
than by deregulation. For one thing, both the international rules
governing bank-capital adequacy so elaborately codified in the Basel I
and Basel II accords and the national rules administered by the
Securities and Exchange Commission failed miserably. It was the Basel
system of weighting assets by their supposed riskiness that
essentially allowed the Enronization of banks’ balance sheets, so that
(for example) the ratio of Citigroup’s tangible on- and
off-balance-sheet assets to its common equity reached a staggering 56
to 1 last year."
Others have stated(notably Archy) that what would work very well is
more transparency with rival businesses and industries keeping each
other honest. A watchdog media always on the look out for price
fixing and gouging is a dream I hope to some day see. Kinda like
Marvin Zindler only instead of restaurants and bars and Ho Houses it'd
be all about fair business practices. I'd watch a show like that. In
fact, I'd nominate Jim Cramer as watchdog Czar; he'd be awesome. The
secret to the success of these projects would be keeping the
government out of it. I don't support fascism. Let the government
prosecute and incarcerate but allow the private sector to root out the
tomfoolery. There were people screaming about Madoff years before he
finally got caught and the SEC turned a blind eye. The United States
federal government is incompetent and wasteful. Evidence of this is
huge and the exceptions few and far between. We need rules to prevent
companies from becoming 'too big to fail.' Let's break up the
monopolies and cartels and let the invisible hand decide who wins and
who loses. I truly believe the greater good would be served this way.
Some of it will me messy, yes, but a hell of a lot less wasteful.
The thing I keep coming back to again and again with these economic
issues is my distaste for forced wealth redistribution. It's evil.
If it was done without the middle man of the federal government I
might not mind it so much but putting more money in Congresses coffers
to throw down the sink hole makes me CRAZY mad.
Throw ALL the bums out. I'll be bi-partisan and start with Kay Bailly
Hutchinson. HEAVE-HOOOOO!
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> to be served optimally.
> Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> competition to serve us.
> You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> "us".
> Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
>> exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
>> asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
>> online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
>> started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
>> because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
>> letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
>> market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
>> type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
>> regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
>> against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
>> head exploded back then too.
>> When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
>> a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
>> shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
>> anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
>> hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
>> because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
>> I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
>> see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
>> funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
>> Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
>> jealous.
>> dj
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
>> > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
>> > fine.” – DJ
>> > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
>> > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
>> > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
>> > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
>> > propaganda and infomercials.
>> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
>> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
>> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
>> > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
>> >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
>> >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
>> >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
>> >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
>> >> dj
>> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
>> >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
>> >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
>> >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
>> >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:45 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
> globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
> more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
> more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
> ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
> of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
> see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
> al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
> that?
> On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
>> is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
>> regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
>> regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
>> government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
>> business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
>> that the castration of government and the freeing of business
>> interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
>> to be served optimally.
>> Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
>> the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
>> their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
>> their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
>> Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
>> thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
>> served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
>> the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
>> competition to serve us.
>> You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
>> caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
>> steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
>> then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
>> heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
>> of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
>> power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
>> system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
>> clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
>> elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
>> "us".
>> Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
>> head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
>> with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
>> back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
>> compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
>> more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
>> would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
>> Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
>> On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
>> > exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
>> > asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
>> > online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
>> > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
>> > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
>> > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
>> > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
>> > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
>> > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
>> > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
>> > head exploded back then too.
>> > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
>> > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
>> > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
>> > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
>> > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
>> > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
>> > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
>> > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
>> > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
>> > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
>> > jealous.
>> > dj
>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
>> > > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
>> > > fine.” – DJ
>> > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
>> > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
>> > > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
>> > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
>> > > propaganda and infomercials.
>> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
>> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
>> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
>> > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
>> > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
>> > >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
>> > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
>> > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
>> > >> dj
>> > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
>> > >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
>> > >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
>> > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
>> > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
>> > >> >> for us here in the states.
>> > >> >> dj
>> > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> > Or maybe you like this one better :-)
>> > >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> > >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime
> Minister.
>> > >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
>> > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
>> > >> >> >> conference.
>> > >> >> >> So, Don, isn't Obama finally acting in the manner you've been wanting
>> > >> >> >> him to?
>> > >> >> >> :-)
>> > >> >> >> Francis- Hide quoted text -
>> > >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>> > >> - Show quoted text -
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Ah but our Jefferson is based on your Rousseau and on your Voltaire,
and our constitution is just the result of your Magna Carta. New York
is just an echo of Paris. We are you, and Europe - we can speak of it
now as an entity I think, is doing amazingly well. Not all of us were
keen on the freedom fry thing. You are looking in the mirror. We
recognize the debt.
America, for better or worse and frankly I think better is dominant,
is a European country. So are Canada and Australia, and a lot of South
America. We are your children. Again - you are looking in the mirror.
Now in the future, you, us, maybe even the Chinese are all going to be
Indian. But that is going to take a while! ;)
And a long time after that, perhaps we will be Thai and eat Sum Tom!
and in the end of course we will leave orchids on the streets outside
our doors out of happiness like they do in Bali.;)
To be young today is to have the world....
On Nov 17, 2:08 pm, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your well meant advice, but you can keep your Michael
> Moore and your Sarah Palin. In return we will keep our Hitler and our
> Neuschwanstein. Deal?
> On 17 Nov., 12:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You make a mistake if you interpret our interests that way. We are not
> > like the stereotype.
> > It is true that we have a kind of ignorant streak up the middle of the
> > country but even there in the midwest you are wrong. Some of those
> > people are as nice as warm apple pie.
> > We technically are not even a country.
> > We are you. You are looking in the mirror.
> > Good luck helping God. Be careful you don't serve the devil! ;)
> > On Nov 17, 1:45 am, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
> > > globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
> > > more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
> > > more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
> > > ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
> > > of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
> > > see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
> > > al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
> > > that?
> > > On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> > > > is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> > > > regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> > > > regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> > > > government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> > > > business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> > > > that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> > > > interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> > > > to be served optimally.
> > > > Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> > > > the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> > > > their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> > > > their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> > > > Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> > > > thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> > > > served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> > > > the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> > > > competition to serve us.
> > > > You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> > > > caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> > > > steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> > > > then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> > > > heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> > > > of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> > > > power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> > > > system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> > > > clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> > > > elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> > > > "us".
> > > > Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> > > > head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> > > > with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> > > > back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> > > > compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> > > > more
> conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> > > > would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> > > > Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> > > > On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> > > > >exxploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> > > > > asswards. Reminds me of last year during he ccampaigning when I went
> > > > onlinne to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> > > > > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> > > > > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> > > > > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> > > > > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> > > > > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> > > > > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> > > > > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> > > > > head exploded back then too.
> > > > > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> > > > > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> > > > > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> > >> > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> > > > > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> > > > > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> > > > > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> > > > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> > > > > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> > > > > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> > > > > jealous.
> > > > > dj
> > > > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamntallmind
> > > > > > “… As long as the Fourth Esate retains itt's freedom we'll be just
> > > > > > fine.” – DJ
> > > > > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> > > > > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> > > > > > time nw and hae no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> > > > > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> > > > > > propaganda and infomercials.
> > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> > > > > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> > > > >>>>a feew times when peaaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> > > > > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> > > > > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> > > > > >> dj
> > > > > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> > > > > > > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chrmrn ObObama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> > > > > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> > > > > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> > > > > >> >> for us here in the states.
> > > > > >> >> dj
> > > > > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > Or maybe you like isis one better :-)
> > > >>>>> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> > > > > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> > > > > >> >> >> conference.
Note the link from the above where it says “For more on Cramer, and a
video of him saying hedge funds should manipulate markets and behave
illegally…”
“Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 17, 5:29 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good post Justin. I'm well aware of the merits of your position on
> this issue. I believe it is the most common one and I agree with most
> of what you're saying. I think the problem wasn't not enough
> regulation but too much BAD regulation(Sarbanes-Oxley for instance)
> and extremely poor policing of the good regulation.
> Excerpt from NYT's article by Niall Ferguson
> "Human beings are as good at devising ex post facto explanations for
> big disasters as they are bad at anticipating those disasters. It is
> indeed impressive how rapidly the economists who failed to predict
> this crisis — or predicted the wrong crisis (a dollar crash) — have
> been able to produce such a satisfying story about its origins. Yes,
> it was all the fault of deregulation.
> There are just three problems with this story. First, deregulation
> began quite a while ago (the Depository Institutions Deregulation and
> Monetary Control Act was passed in 1980). If deregulation is to blame
> for the recession that began in December 2007, presumably it should
> also get some of the credit for the intervening growth. Second, the
> much greater financial regulation of the 1970s failed to prevent the
> United States from suffering not only double-digit inflation in that
> decade but also a recession (between 1973 and 1975) every bit as
> severe and protracted as the one we’re in now. Third, the continental
> Europeans — who supposedly have much better-regulated financial
> sectors than the United States — have even worse problems in their
> banking sector than we do. The German government likes to wag its
> finger disapprovingly at the “Anglo Saxon” financial model, but last
> year average bank leverage was four times higher in Germany than in
> the United States. Schadenfreude will be in order when the German
> banking crisis strikes.
> …
> The reality is that crises are more often caused by bad regulation
> than by deregulation. For one thing, both the international rules
> governing bank-capital adequacy so elaborately codified in the Basel I
> and Basel II accords and the national rules administered by the
> Securities and Exchange Commission failed miserably. It was the Basel
> system of weighting assets by their supposed riskiness that
> essentially allowed the Enronization of banks’ balance sheets, so that
> (for example) the ratio of Citigroup’s tangible on- and
> off-balance-sheet assets to its common equity reached a staggering 56
> to 1 last year."
> Others have stated(notably Archy) that what would work very well is
> more transparency with rival businesses and industries keeping each
> other honest. A watchdog media always on the look out for price
> fixing and gouging is a dream I hope to some day see. Kinda like
> Marvin Zindler only instead of restaurants and bars and Ho Houses it'd
> be all about fair business practices. I'd watch a show like that. In
> fact, I'd nominate Jim Cramer as watchdog Czar; he'd be awesome. The
> secret to the success of these projects would be keeping the
> government out of it. I don't support fascism. Let the government
> prosecute and incarcerate but allow the private sector to root out the
> tomfoolery. There were people screaming about Madoff years before he
> finally got caught and the SEC turned a blind eye. The United States
> federal government is incompetent and wasteful. Evidence of this is
> huge and the exceptions few and far between. We need rules to prevent
> companies from becoming 'too big to fail.' Let's break up the
> monopolies and cartels and let the invisible hand decide who wins and
> who loses. I truly believe the greater good would be served this way.
> Some of it will me messy, yes, but a hell of a lot less wasteful.
> The thing I keep coming back to again and again with these economic
> issues is my distaste for forced wealth redistribution. It's evil.
> If it was done without the middle man of the federal government I
> might not mind it so much but putting more money in Congresses coffers
> to throw down the sink hole makes me CRAZY mad.
> Throw ALL the bums out. I'll be bi-partisan and start with Kay Bailly
> Hutchinson. HEAVE-HOOOOO!
> dj
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> > is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> > regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> > regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> > government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> > business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> > that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> > interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> > to be served optimally.
> > Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> > the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> > their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> > their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> > Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> > thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> > served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> > the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> > competition to serve us.
> > You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> > caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> > steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> > then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> > heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> > of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> > power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> > system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> > clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> > elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> > "us".
> > Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> > head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> > with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> > back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> > compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> > more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> > would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> > Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> > On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> >> exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> >> asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> >> online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> >> started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> >> because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> >> letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> >> market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> >> type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> >> regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> >> against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> >> head exploded back then too.
> >> When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> >> a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> >> shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> >> anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> >> hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> >> because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> >> I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> >> see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> >> funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> >> Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> >> jealous.
> >> dj
> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
> >> > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> >> > fine.” – DJ
> >> > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> >> > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> >> > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> >> > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:45 AM, gabbydott <gabbyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Guess what, Just, I don't want the US to implement their ideas
> > globally. I interpret their interests as being interested in achieving
> > more personal convenience (more drugs, more fast fat food, more TV,
> > more cars, more air condition, more heroes, more right to remain
> > ignorant and stupid) for their own people and let God do the miracle
> > of creating endless global resources for fulfilling this mission. I
> > see that God has been put under some time stress from you Americans et
> > al. and that's why I have decided to help him. Now can you fathom
> > that?
> > On 16 Nov., 15:14, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Competing the interests of the regulators with those that the regulate
> >> is what keeps us free. Remember, "we" are not who "they" are
> >> regulating. Some of "them" are who are in government are the ones
> >> regulating the others who manage the businesses. The identification of
> >> government and business is Marxism and the resulting castration of
> >> business power would be a disaster for "us". But that does not mean
> >> that the castration of government and the freeing of business
> >> interests would be its salvation. A balance is what is needed for "us"
> >> to be served optimally.
> >> Most of us are essentially powerless politically. The problem is that
> >> the those that are regulated have succeeded in using the means at
> >> their disposal to convince a lot of us that regulation = the loss of
> >> their freedom identically - without regard to balance or fact.
> >> Consequently the regulatory power was diminished - not eliminated
> >> thank god - but diminished to a point where "our" benefits were not
> >> served optimally. We need therefore to use our votes to reestablish
> >> the balance of power and get the government and business back in the
> >> competition to serve us.
> >> You can see it in health care. The lack of a government system has
> >> caused it to fail. Does that mean the government taking over will work
> >> steady state? Not necessarily. But if we can get a "government option"
> >> then notice will have been served to all of "them" running - not the
> >> heath care but the health care financing system - that the consequence
> >> of their failure - some would call it rape - is the loss of their
> >> power - better it diminution. Then, should a government regulated
> >> system do the same the answer will be to re-privatize and clean their
> >> clocks on the other side. Hopefully, both the business and government
> >> elites will then get the message and "they" will stop "f******" with
> >> "us".
> >> Your problem is that you are preaching ideas that were put into your
> >> head in order to get you to betray your own interests. They succeeded
> >> with their multi-billion dollar effort very well. Like scorpion on the
> >> back of the frog they just don't get the connection to the lack of
> >> compteitiveness that has occurred. Unless the polity of the US becomes
> >> more conscious then it will cease to be a factor politically and that
> >> would be tragic because the ideas under it, especially those of
> >> Jefferson, need to be implemented globally.
> >> On Nov 16, 12:52 am, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Ok. So I'm picking my brains off my screen because my head just
> >> > exploded. Regulation makes us freer? Whaa? That seems back
> >> > asswards. Reminds me of last year during the campaigning when I went
> >> > online to check out this new guy Barack I'd never heard of before and
> >> > started reading his page. I went straight to the economic section
> >> > because that one is most important to me. At the top in big, bold
> >> > letters it said something along the lines of him supporting a free
> >> > market and small businesses and blah, blah, blah. Then in regular
> >> > type it goes into more detail and lists line after line of new
> >> > regulations and tariffs and support for unions that goes so totally
> >> > against what my understanding of a free market is supposed to be. My
> >> > head exploded back then too.
> >> > When this kind of disconnect happens I expect the media to set up
> >> > a-caterwauling that spreads to every branch of our vast 4th estate to
> >> > shine a light on the obvious hypocrisy. Not a peep. Not from
> >> > anywhere except a few conservative blogs and even that was half
> >> > hearted. I think conservatives wanted Obama to win the nomination
> >> > because they thought he'd be easier to beat then Hillary. Ooops.
> >> > I found last years global press freedom list but I'd be interested to
> >> > see if Venezuela has fallen or risen in the ratings this year. It's
> >> > funny how in the middle East the only country that rates as free is
> >> > Israel. Imagine that. No wonder they all hate the Joos. They're
> >> > jealous.
> >> > dj
> >> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:52 AM, ornamentalmind
> >> > > “… As long as the Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just
> >> > > fine.” – DJ
> >> > > That’s my point! Last I heard ‘we’ are somewhere between 28th and 37th
> >> > > globally in this area. They have been bought and paid for for a long
> >> > > time now and have no regulations to even suggest a sense of actual
> >> > > ‘fair and balanced’ presentations rather than attitudes, platitudes,
> >> > > propaganda and infomercials.
> >> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> >> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> >> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> >> > > On Nov 15, 10:53 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin. -Orn.
> >> > >> I'm surprised you think so. I've heard "Fascist" whispered more then
> >> > >> a few times when speaking about WH tactics but I never thought I'd
> >> > >> hear it from you. It's not as bad as all that yet. As long as the
> >> > >> Fourth Estate retains it's freedom we'll be just fine.
> >> > >> dj
> >> > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, ornamentalmind
> >> > >> > I would place BO closer to Il Duce than Lenin.
> >> > >> > On Nov 15, 9:24 pm, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> Yeah, I've seen the Chairman Obama jokes. He's not that bad. Closer
> >> > >> >> to a Lenin philosophy from what I can tell. Lenin is still a great
> >> > >> >> hero in Russia. I keep waiting for the release of some 5 year plans
> >> > >> >> for us here in the states.
> >> > >> >> dj
> >> > >> >> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> > Or maybe you like this one better :-)
> >> > >> >> > On 15 Nov., 16:33, frantheman <francis.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > >> >> >> At the APEC summit, President Obama directly demanded the release of
> > > >> >> >> Aung San Suu Kyi in the presence of the Myanmar Prime
> > Minister.
> >> > >> >> >> On the other hand, the leaders of government present dropped concrete
> >> > >> >> >> proposals for emissions-reduction at the upcoming Copenhagen world
> >> > >> >> >> conference.
> >> > >> >> >> So, Don, isn't Obama finally acting in the manner you've been wanting
> >> > >> >> >> him to?
> >> > >> >> >> :-)
> >> > >> >> >> Francis- Hide quoted text -
> >> > >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >> > >> - Show quoted text -
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.- Hide quoted text -
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