"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
slapped and turn the other cheek.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
enemy and it is us.
__
“Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> slapped and turn the other cheek.
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
aspect.
On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> enemy and it is us.
> __
> “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
address the other aspects.
“Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> aspect.
> On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > enemy and it is us.
> > __
> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> > > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> > > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> > > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> > > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?- Hide quoted text -
I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> address the other aspects.
> “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > aspect.
> > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > enemy and it is us.
> > > __
> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > > > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> > > > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > > > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> > > > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> > > > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> > > > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?- Hide quoted text -
“I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
especially
based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
precisely as posted.
“Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
“Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
– George Bernard Shaw
“The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
Bernard Shaw
= = =
“The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > address the other aspects.
> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > aspect.
> > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > __
> > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > > > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > > > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > > > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > > > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > > > > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> > > > > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > > > > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> > > > > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> > > > > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> > > > > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?- Hide quoted text -
I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
Mencken, is screwed.
I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
honesty is such a joke?
On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> especially
> based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> precisely as posted.
> “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> – George Bernard Shaw
> “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> Bernard Shaw
> = = =
> “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > address the other aspects.
> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > aspect.
> > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > __
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > > > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > > > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > > > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > > > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > > > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > > > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > > > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > > > > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > > > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > > > > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > > > > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > > > > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
Slip --It is all over the world--and their was a little balance there
for many years
at least more than what it is now...I think you are hitting it right
on the nose and well put...but because we stand around and been taught
to only way to change something is to vote...if we are allowed to vote
on such matters..second of all we are turkey's ...we could have picket
lines and sit in's--are we could sit up petitions..and have thousands
sign it but what bills ..would be written to change such off balances.
and the concept of robbing Peter to pay Paul..well this still is not a
good healthy balance..and far as someone getting what you work for
well..I would not quit working (just get stronger in thinking and
learn (get a book ) Title would be --How to keep people from taking
what is yours..that your labor's would not be in vain...Obviously the
people in the nation's are getting smarter...Ok lets say the people
are totally aware of this and the nation's problems and their mistakes
and robbery of unjust balances...we have a sticker here that says
united we stand divided we fall..well people know they can either
stand with it or fall..
On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> slapped and turn the other cheek.
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:08 PM, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> Mencken, is screwed.
> I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> honesty is such a joke?
> On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > especially
> > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > precisely as posted.
> > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > – George Bernard Shaw
> > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > Bernard Shaw
> > = = =
> > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been
> demonstrated,
> > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see
> that
> > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded
> upon
> > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason
> leading
> > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today
> does
> > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding
> fathers
> > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit
> that
> > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > aspect.
> > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> decades
> > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the
> most
> > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the
> same
> > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories
> like
> > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate
> human
> > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a
> lack of
> > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met
> the
> > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > __
> > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is
> the
> > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom
> in
> > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> wealthy
> > > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for,
> another
> > > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot
> give to
> > > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from
> somebody
> > > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not
> have to
> > > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and
> when
> > > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work
> because
> > > > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear
> friend,
> > > > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've
> seen our
> > > > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave
> people
> > > > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and
> dysfunctional and
> > > > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98
> billion
> > > > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to
> stimulate
> > > > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of
> taxpayer
> > > > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much
> of it
> > > > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no
> longer a
> > > > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the
> wealthy
> > > > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have
> become
> > > > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in
> servitude
> > > > > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes,
> health
> > > > > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage,
> while the
> > > > > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are
> getting
> > > > > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the
> working
> > > > > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who
> just get
> > > > > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever
> allow
> > > > > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that
> will
> > > > > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all
> property until
> > > > > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > > > > conquered. The issuing power
I used to think (as an old leftie union man) that we needed to be more
activist and militant. Voting as we now have it is as exasperating as
the vote in the old Soviet Paradise or whatever farces exist in
Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. I began to think that the turn to the
soggy middle-class 'meritocracy' might help, but this is now
functionally tribal and selfish. We are dealing with pathology, but
this is a dangerous thought given the potentials of zealot behaviour.
We need deep constitutional change that controls our representatives.
They are so out of it that a few of them have just seen fit to elect'
an EU President and 'Foreign Affairs Minister' with no reference to
the electorate.
On 22 Nov, 04:35, dj Briscoe <sandsands.brisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:08 PM, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > Mencken, is screwed.
> > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > honesty is such a joke?
> > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > precisely as posted.
> > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > Bernard Shaw
> > > = = =
> > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been
> > demonstrated,
> > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see
> > that
> > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded
> > upon
> > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason
> > leading
> > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today
> > does
> > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding
> > fathers
> > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit
> > that
> > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> > decades
> > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the
> > most
> > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the
> > same
> > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories
> > like
> > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate
> > human
> > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a
> > lack of
> > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met
> > the
> > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is
> > the
> > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom
> > in
> > > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> > wealthy
> > > > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for,
> > another
> > > > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot
> > give to
> > > > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from
> > somebody
> > > > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not
> > have to
> > > > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and
> > when
> > > > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work
> > because
> > > > > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear
> > friend,
> > > > > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've
> > seen our
> > > > > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave
> > people
> > > > > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and
> > dysfunctional and
> > > > > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98
> > billion
> > > > > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to
> > stimulate
> > > > > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of
> > taxpayer
> > > > > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much
> > of it
> > > > > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no
> > longer a
> > > > > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the
> > wealthy
> > > > > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have
> > become
> > > > > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance,
The term Randism or any such the like, encapsulates the whole, when in
all actuality I've expressed very little of any of it as having
pertinence, only for a specific point. One could have a dislike for
communism but my point is that when viewed in schematic way there may
be some component that seems reasonably sound. But we can leave it
there as most have a dislike for Rand and there are other sources to
cite. Back on the track, I do think much of the breakdown lies in the
lack of truth from 'demas' but mostly, for me, I see something that is
that wasn't supposed to be, the original design has been modified
beyond recognition, abridged to give new meaning to old words that
only retain the original spelling, like freedom. The puppet masters
pull the strings, the people dance to the tunes they are fed while
analysts calculate the receipts of the day. The task master whips the
production team to the limits to learn how much can be squeezed out,
how much people are willing to bear, how much they are willing to toil
for those who reap the spoils of their labor. How high a price for a
gallon before the scale tips, no longer in favor of the profiteers,
how high till the ink turns red? That became the benchmark from which
to perform the balancing act, but someone wasn't watching, blind faith
was put into trust, another empty word, and now the scales have
collapsed sending shock waves around the globe, a financial Tsunami
leaving millions dismayed with jaws agape in disbelief and founding
fathers rolling in graves. The towers are being rebuilt but only to
shore up the walls of the castle, the moat is still in place, the
people remain outside and function as always without change. The day
after elections the alarm clocks sound, the day begins like the day
before at the same place for the same pay. The only thing that
changes is the political rhetoric of fixing all the problems that the
other one caused, explanations and reasons for poverty and suffering
offered to the populace, the now we know what went wrong song. But I
guess the bright side might be that some are making money as political
pundits on talk shows and the people get to go online, piss and moan
in chat rooms and forums, spew their anger and blame in blogs, in a
whirlwind of blather that goes nowhere. So I too am putting in my
piece, my two cents or wee bit which might somehow cause a microscopic
ripple that one day becomes a wave of real change.
On Nov 21, 7:08 pm, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> Mencken, is screwed.
> I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> honesty is such a joke?
> On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > especially
> > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > precisely as posted.
> > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > – George Bernard Shaw
> > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > Bernard Shaw
> > = = =
> > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > aspect.
> > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > __
> > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
It is everywhere, wherever people are willing to put up with others
who wish to rule rather that work. We vote for what is offered to us
and even then the electoral college can put a spin on it, or the
highest court can simply rule in the winner.
Also everything in my other post. :-)
On Nov 21, 10:19 pm, dj <sandsands.brisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Slip --It is all over the world--and their was a little balance there
> for many years
> at least more than what it is now...I think you are hitting it right
> on the nose and well put...but because we stand around and been taught
> to only way to change something is to vote...if we are allowed to vote
> on such matters..second of all we are turkey's ...we could have picket
> lines and sit in's--are we could sit up petitions..and have thousands
> sign it but what bills ..would be written to change such off balances.
> and the concept of robbing Peter to pay Paul..well this still is not a
> good healthy balance..and far as someone getting what you work for
> well..I would not quit working (just get stronger in thinking and
> learn (get a book ) Title would be --How to keep people from taking
> what is yours..that your labor's would not be in vain...Obviously the
> people in the nation's are getting smarter...Ok lets say the people
> are totally aware of this and the nation's problems and their mistakes
> and robbery of unjust balances...we have a sticker here that says
> united we stand divided we fall..well people know they can either
> stand with it or fall..
> On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> > anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
You know the word (deep) is truly the right word..deep to me reminds me of
pulling the tooth out by the root...but then again that would be really
starting all over..in constitutional change --I think you are right..Foreign
Affairs Minister maybe has no idea to the true problem of the people ...I do
not dis-credit and do not mean to dis-credit the ones that are well
educatedand was well groomed and polished of years of preping for their
positions..but I also believe that ole saying how can you see the tree's
sitting in the woods...I have not read up on Afghanistan, and of Iraq as
much as I know about where Iran stands..I do know this that you look at the
countries that have been real problems for many nations and have been
allowed to harbor terriorist and yet we still can do nothing...but I agree
on this as just one person that gets tired of allowing such things and I
geuss I say what is so hard about just saying no and tell it as it really is
clearly...but yes you might have something there about change
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 4:42 AM, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> I used to think (as an old leftie union man) that we needed to be more
> activist and militant. Voting as we now have it is as exasperating as
> the vote in the old Soviet Paradise or whatever farces exist in
> Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. I began to think that the turn to the
> soggy middle-class 'meritocracy' might help, but this is now
> functionally tribal and selfish. We are dealing with pathology, but
> this is a dangerous thought given the potentials of zealot behaviour.
> We need deep constitutional change that controls our representatives.
> They are so out of it that a few of them have just seen fit to elect'
> an EU President and 'Foreign Affairs Minister' with no reference to
> the electorate.
> On 22 Nov, 04:35, dj Briscoe <sandsands.brisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > True
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:08 PM, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > > Mencken, is screwed.
> > > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > > honesty is such a joke?
> > > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > > especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new
> and
> > > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > > precisely as posted.
> > > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is
> Uselessness.”
> > > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at
> a
> > > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > > Bernard Shaw
> > > > = = =
> > > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> especially
> > > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours.
> Sometimes
> > > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of
> humanity
> > > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will
> not
> > > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is
> the
> > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom
> in
> > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to
> correlate
> > > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been
> > > demonstrated,
> > > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can
> see
> > > that
> > > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest
> is
> > > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of
> inner
> > > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if
> founded
> > > upon
> > > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without
> truth
> > > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason
> > > leading
> > > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in
> today
> > > does
> > > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding
> > > fathers
> > > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to
> admit
> > > that
> > > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between
> the
> > > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a
> few
> > > decades
> > > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was
> the
> > > most
> > > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic
> theories
> > > like
> > > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and
> exacerbate
> > > human
> > > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to
> pure
> > > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on
> a
> > > lack of
> > > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of
> non-
> > > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have
> met
> > > the
> > > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education
> is
> > > the
> > > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for
> freedom
> > > in
> > > > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating
> the
> > > wealthy
> > > > > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working
> for,
> > > another
> > > > > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government
> cannot
> > > give to
> > > > > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take
> from
> > > somebody
> > > > > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not
Deeply felt and understand...and yes so true...they should of taken care of
their balance's of life..but all of the things you said pushed to our limits
of devoted hearts-in what you do you do it with all your might and cheerful
heart...hopeing you will reap with them as some prosper --you prosper...
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The term Randism or any such the like, encapsulates the whole, when in
> all actuality I've expressed very little of any of it as having
> pertinence, only for a specific point. One could have a dislike for
> communism but my point is that when viewed in schematic way there may
> be some component that seems reasonably sound. But we can leave it
> there as most have a dislike for Rand and there are other sources to
> cite. Back on the track, I do think much of the breakdown lies in the
> lack of truth from 'demas' but mostly, for me, I see something that is
> that wasn't supposed to be, the original design has been modified
> beyond recognition, abridged to give new meaning to old words that
> only retain the original spelling, like freedom. The puppet masters
> pull the strings, the people dance to the tunes they are fed while
> analysts calculate the receipts of the day. The task master whips the
> production team to the limits to learn how much can be squeezed out,
> how much people are willing to bear, how much they are willing to toil
> for those who reap the spoils of their labor. How high a price for a
> gallon before the scale tips, no longer in favor of the profiteers,
> how high till the ink turns red? That became the benchmark from which
> to perform the balancing act, but someone wasn't watching, blind faith
> was put into trust, another empty word, and now the scales have
> collapsed sending shock waves around the globe, a financial Tsunami
> leaving millions dismayed with jaws agape in disbelief and founding
> fathers rolling in graves. The towers are being rebuilt but only to
> shore up the walls of the castle, the moat is still in place, the
> people remain outside and function as always without change. The day
> after elections the alarm clocks sound, the day begins like the day
> before at the same place for the same pay. The only thing that
> changes is the political rhetoric of fixing all the problems that the
> other one caused, explanations and reasons for poverty and suffering
> offered to the populace, the now we know what went wrong song. But I
> guess the bright side might be that some are making money as political
> pundits on talk shows and the people get to go online, piss and moan
> in chat rooms and forums, spew their anger and blame in blogs, in a
> whirlwind of blather that goes nowhere. So I too am putting in my
> piece, my two cents or wee bit which might somehow cause a microscopic
> ripple that one day becomes a wave of real change.
> On Nov 21, 7:08 pm, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > Mencken, is screwed.
> > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > honesty is such a joke?
> > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > precisely as posted.
> > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > Bernard Shaw
> > > = = =
> > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is
> the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to
> correlate
> > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been
> demonstrated,
> > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see
> that
> > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest
> is
> > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of
> inner
> > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded
> upon
> > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without
> truth
> > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason
> leading
> > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today
> does
> > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding
> fathers
> > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit
> that
> > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> decades
> > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was
> the most
> > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during
> the same
> > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic
> theories like
> > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate
> human
> > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to
> pure
> > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a
> lack of
> > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have
> met the
> > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education
> is the
> > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism,
You find Rand disgusting?. some of the words you mention is a little of an a
puzzel---demaslave --skin...? Some of these things I saw under Rand I did
not really care for
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > address the other aspects.
> > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > aspect.
> > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> decades
> > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the
> same
> > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories
> like
> > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack
> of
> > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > __
> > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> wealthy
> > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for,
> another
> > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give
> to
> > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from
> somebody
> > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear
> friend,
> > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen
> our
> > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional
> and
> > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98
> billion
> > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to
> stimulate
> > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of
> it
> > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer
> a
> > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in
> servitude
> > > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes,
> health
> > > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while
> the
> > > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are
> getting
> > > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just
> get
> > > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property
> until
> > > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas
> Jefferson
> > > > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement,
> one
> > > > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar
> salaries
> > > > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to
> this
> > > > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > > > > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is
> we
> > > > > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > > > > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture,
> the
> > > > > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and
> charity
> > > > > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not
> just
> > > > > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
“I used to think (as an old leftie union man) that we needed to be
more
activist and militant. Voting as we now have it is as exasperating
as
the vote in the old Soviet Paradise or whatever farces exist in
Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq….” – archy
“If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” – Emma Goldman
On Nov 22, 4:42 am, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> I used to think (as an old leftie union man) that we needed to be more
> activist and militant. Voting as we now have it is as exasperating as
> the vote in the old Soviet Paradise or whatever farces exist in
> Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. I began to think that the turn to the
> soggy middle-class 'meritocracy' might help, but this is now
> functionally tribal and selfish. We are dealing with pathology, but
> this is a dangerous thought given the potentials of zealot behaviour.
> We need deep constitutional change that controls our representatives.
> They are so out of it that a few of them have just seen fit to elect'
> an EU President and 'Foreign Affairs Minister' with no reference to
> the electorate.
> On 22 Nov, 04:35, dj Briscoe <sandsands.brisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > True
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:08 PM, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > > Mencken, is screwed.
> > > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > > honesty is such a joke?
> > > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > > especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > > precisely as posted.
> > > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > > Bernard Shaw
> > > > = = =
> > > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been
> > > demonstrated,
> > > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see
> > > that
> > > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded
> > > upon
> > > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason
> > > leading
> > > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today
> > > does
> > > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding
> > > fathers
> > > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit
> > > that
> > > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> > > decades
> > > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the
> > > most
> > > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the
> > > same
> > > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories
> > > like
> > > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate
> > > human
> > > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a
> > > lack of
> > > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met
> > > the
> > > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is
> > > the
> > > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom
> > > in
> > > > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> > > wealthy
> > > > > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for,
> > > another
> > > > > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot
> > > give to
> > > > > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from
> > > somebody
> > > > > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not
> > > have to
> > > > > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and
> > > when
> > > > > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work
> > > because
> > > > > > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear
> > > friend,
> > > > > > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've
> > > seen our
> > > > > > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave
> > > people
> > > > > > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and
> > > dysfunctional and
> > > > > > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98
> > > billion
> > > > > > > > > in 2009. They could have
When it comes to economic ‘collapse’, one must remember that during
the last depression about 80 years ago, there were the very few who
became quite wealthy, thus it is possible for them to easily advocate
and taut the wonders of capitalism.
On Nov 22, 10:39 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The term Randism or any such the like, encapsulates the whole, when in
> all actuality I've expressed very little of any of it as having
> pertinence, only for a specific point. One could have a dislike for
> communism but my point is that when viewed in schematic way there may
> be some component that seems reasonably sound. But we can leave it
> there as most have a dislike for Rand and there are other sources to
> cite. Back on the track, I do think much of the breakdown lies in the
> lack of truth from 'demas' but mostly, for me, I see something that is
> that wasn't supposed to be, the original design has been modified
> beyond recognition, abridged to give new meaning to old words that
> only retain the original spelling, like freedom. The puppet masters
> pull the strings, the people dance to the tunes they are fed while
> analysts calculate the receipts of the day. The task master whips the
> production team to the limits to learn how much can be squeezed out,
> how much people are willing to bear, how much they are willing to toil
> for those who reap the spoils of their labor. How high a price for a
> gallon before the scale tips, no longer in favor of the profiteers,
> how high till the ink turns red? That became the benchmark from which
> to perform the balancing act, but someone wasn't watching, blind faith
> was put into trust, another empty word, and now the scales have
> collapsed sending shock waves around the globe, a financial Tsunami
> leaving millions dismayed with jaws agape in disbelief and founding
> fathers rolling in graves. The towers are being rebuilt but only to
> shore up the walls of the castle, the moat is still in place, the
> people remain outside and function as always without change. The day
> after elections the alarm clocks sound, the day begins like the day
> before at the same place for the same pay. The only thing that
> changes is the political rhetoric of fixing all the problems that the
> other one caused, explanations and reasons for poverty and suffering
> offered to the populace, the now we know what went wrong song. But I
> guess the bright side might be that some are making money as political
> pundits on talk shows and the people get to go online, piss and moan
> in chat rooms and forums, spew their anger and blame in blogs, in a
> whirlwind of blather that goes nowhere. So I too am putting in my
> piece, my two cents or wee bit which might somehow cause a microscopic
> ripple that one day becomes a wave of real change.
> On Nov 21, 7:08 pm, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > Mencken, is screwed.
> > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > honesty is such a joke?
> > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > precisely as posted.
> > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > Bernard Shaw
> > > = = =
> > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> The term Randism or any such the like, encapsulates the whole, when in
> all actuality I've expressed very little of any of it as having
> pertinence, only for a specific point. One could have a dislike for
> communism but my point is that when viewed in schematic way there may
> be some component that seems reasonably sound. But we can leave it
> there as most have a dislike for Rand and there are other sources to
> cite. Back on the track, I do think much of the breakdown lies in the
> lack of truth from 'demas' but mostly, for me, I see something that is
> that wasn't supposed to be, the original design has been modified
> beyond recognition, abridged to give new meaning to old words that
> only retain the original spelling, like freedom. The puppet masters
> pull the strings, the people dance to the tunes they are fed while
> analysts calculate the receipts of the day. The task master whips the
> production team to the limits to learn how much can be squeezed out,
> how much people are willing to bear, how much they are willing to toil
> for those who reap the spoils of their labor. How high a price for a
> gallon before the scale tips, no longer in favor of the profiteers,
> how high till the ink turns red? That became the benchmark from which
> to perform the balancing act, but someone wasn't watching, blind faith
> was put into trust, another empty word, and now the scales have
> collapsed sending shock waves around the globe, a financial Tsunami
> leaving millions dismayed with jaws agape in disbelief and founding
> fathers rolling in graves. The towers are being rebuilt but only to
> shore up the walls of the castle, the moat is still in place, the
> people remain outside and function as always without change. The day
> after elections the alarm clocks sound, the day begins like the day
> before at the same place for the same pay. The only thing that
> changes is the political rhetoric of fixing all the problems that the
> other one caused, explanations and reasons for poverty and suffering
> offered to the populace, the now we know what went wrong song. But I
> guess the bright side might be that some are making money as political
> pundits on talk shows and the people get to go online, piss and moan
> in chat rooms and forums, spew their anger and blame in blogs, in a
> whirlwind of blather that goes nowhere. So I too am putting in my
> piece, my two cents or wee bit which might somehow cause a microscopic
> ripple that one day becomes a wave of real change.
> On Nov 21, 7:08 pm, archytas <archy...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > I go along almost all the way here Slip, though I don't like Randism.
> > Truth eludes us in the absolute sense and I probably agree with Rorty
> > that we wouldn't know when we had achieved it even if we could. One
> > can look at Orn's citation of Emma Goldman and agree, yet see that the
> > world's population has increased three-fold since we were kids, find
> > no decent revolution anywhere and worry that certain types will soon
> > be using the term 'carbon footprint' with the same callous intent
> > carried by 'collateral damage'. Politics, as Slip says through
> > Mencken, is screwed.
> > I'd slip off to the fact that we could now operate real-time feedback
> > in evaluating what we are doing in order to be more truthful.
> > Technology could get the banks and politicians off our backs and bring
> > about more direct democracy that had no room for the 'demas'. The
> > design of this would require that we take genuine looks at what goes
> > on in terms of cover-up and manipulation. Yet how do we start when
> > honesty is such a joke?
> > On 21 Nov, 16:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > “I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh,
> > > especially
> > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.” – SD
> > > Cool Slip!...you not finding anyone anathema and all.
> > > And, harsh or not, the term is a part of our language and as such has
> > > specific uses. I mostly reserve it for those I sense are professing
> > > things against humanity. Having impartially approached Ms. Rand in an
> > > open-minded way, in fact I dare say as an idealist looking for new and
> > > preferable ideologies and methodologies when I first read her decades
> > > ago, my conclusion (for I do possess a discriminating mind) is
> > > precisely as posted.
> > > “Our impartiality is kept for abstract merit and demerit, which none
> > > of us ever saw.” – George Eliot
> > > “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with
> > > the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”
> > > – George Bernard Shaw
> > > “The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a
> > > reasonable conclusion, we still…must close our minds for the moment
> > > with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions.” – George
> > > Bernard Shaw
> > > = = =
> > > “The ultimate end of all revolutionary social change is to establish
> > > the sanctity of human life, the dignity of man, the right of every
> > > human being to liberty and well-being” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 21, 7:40 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > > > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > > > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > > > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > > > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > > > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > > > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > > > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > > > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > > > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > > > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > > > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > > > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > > > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > > > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > > > address the other aspects.
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > > > aspect.
> > > > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few decades
> > > > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the same
> > > > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories like
> > > > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack of
> > > > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > > > __
> > > > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder Slip how much in common your 'Crumbling Nation' has with our
'Broken Britian' that I hear of all over the place?
I don't think that Britian is broken at all, in order to have
something brake it has to be be whole or have been fixed in the first
palce.
Are there problems to be faced? Yes of course there are, but I don't
think I can think of any point in history when problems didn't need to
be faced.
Let us have a good look at thios Britian that is broken and see what
these people really mean by it.
Immigration, unemployment, racial tensions, distrust of the
politicical system. Well seems like the late 70's and early 80's all
over again. Perhaps my Dad would have a differant era in mind and
mayhap my Gran a differant one even from my Dad.
Naaaa it all looks like business as normal to me, perhaps the tension
is being felt by a new generation now we are adult, or perhaps people
are actualy ready to make the place better?
That would be nice, but ahhhhh full of the milk of human kindness, and
willing to not call an idiot, an idiot today, nope seems I'm not in
that mood this morning.
People are strange, and it doesn't have to be when you're a stanger,
people are just fuckin' strange.
On 20 Nov, 14:54, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
> out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another
> person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
> anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
> else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
> is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen our
> manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional and
> impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98 billion
> in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to stimulate
> the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of it
> going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer a
> governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in servitude
> to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes, health
> benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while the
> politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are getting
> the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just get
> slapped and turn the other cheek.
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until
> their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
> And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement, one
> which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar salaries
> annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to this
> once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is we
> have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture, the
> face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and charity
> organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not just
> turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?
DJ, You must be referring to Orn, he states above "As to Rand, I find
her to be anathema." (Nov 20, 11:20)
The word "demaslave" is written by H L Menchan and is in the paragraph
I provided above.
The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
On Nov 22, 1:46 pm, dj Briscoe <sandsands.brisc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You find Rand disgusting?. some of the words you mention is a little of an a
> puzzel---demaslave --skin...? Some of these things I saw under Rand I did
> not really care for
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't find anyone to be anathema, I find the word harsh, especially
> > based on opinionated views that don't coincide with yours. Sometimes
> > enlightenment can lead one into darkness, like the far right.
> > Impartiality is hand in hand with being open minded.
> > The art of politics, under democracy, is simply the art
> > of ringing it. Two branches reveal themselves. There
> > is the art of the demagogue, and there is the art of what
> > may be called, by a shot-gun marriage of Latin and Greek,
> > the demaslave. They are complementary, and both of them
> > are degrading to their practitioners. The demagogue is one
> > who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he
> > knows to be idiots. The demaslave is one who listens to
> > what these idiots have to say and then pretends that he
> > believes it himself. -- H.L. Mencken
> > On Nov 20, 11:20 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > As to Rand, I find her to be anathema.
> > > Truth is of value. Truth and reason are only one aspect of humanity
> > > and thus any system based on a partial view of our ‘being’ will not
> > > address the other aspects.
> > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > On Nov 20, 4:56 pm, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Truth be that it is and has been, but it doesn't seem to correlate
> > > > with democracy and therefore we the people as has been demonstrated,
> > > > have been duped and cajoled into what is basically a falsehood.
> > > > Randian and Randism are terms that Ayn Rand detests and I can see that
> > > > you could have just set it as Ayn Rand socioeconomics. The rest is
> > > > based upon socialist and communist presumptions of a lack of inner
> > > > light, and I agree, but they are not without validity if founded upon
> > > > pure truth politics. Let's face it, no system works without truth
> > > > within its tenets, which coincides with Rands tenet of Reason leading
> > > > the way. The system of government within which we live in today does
> > > > not reflect that of the government of reason that the founding fathers
> > > > envisioned. Everyone loves to chew on Rand but you have to admit that
> > > > some of it has value, even if it lies in the value of alternate
> > > > aspect.
> > > > On Nov 20, 3:43 pm, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > The US has always been mostly an oligarchy with some fascist
> > > > > tendencies. There has always been an extreme divide between the
> > > > > socioeconomic classes with a short lessoning of this for a few
> > decades
> > > > > last century. However during that era, the tax structure was the most
> > > > > progressive and the US reached its zenith economically during the
> > same
> > > > > time period. Those who embrace Ayn Randian socioeconomic theories
> > like
> > > > > the neo-cons at once expand the economic divide and exacerbate human
> > > > > suffering with a lack of empathy and compassion, similar to pure
> > > > > capitalism. Even when socialism and communism are founded on a lack
> > of
> > > > > inner light and wisdom does a similar chaos and arising of non-
> > > > > idealism result. The problem is not ‘out there’. We all have met the
> > > > > enemy and it is us.
> > > > > __
> > > > > “Do not be alarmed, I have no dynamite in my pocket…Education is the
> > > > > only bomb sanctioned by true anarchism, which stands for freedom in
> > > > > the truest and highest sense.” – Emma Goldman
> > > > > On Nov 20, 6:54 am, Slip Disc <bug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the
> > wealthy
> > > > > > out of freedom. What one person receives without working for,
> > another
> > > > > > person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give
> > to
> > > > > > anybody anything that the government does not first take from
> > somebody
> > > > > > else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to
> > > > > > work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when
> > > > > > the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because
> > > > > > somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear
> > friend,
> > > > > > is about the end of any nation...You cannot multiply wealth by
> > > > > > dividing it.." Dr. Adrian Rogers
> > > > > > Obviously our nation has been crumbling for some time. We've seen
> > our
> > > > > > manufacturing giants fall and corporate outsourcing leave people
> > > > > > stranded. The government has become too large and dysfunctional
> > and
> > > > > > impotent other than its ability to waste taxpayer dollars, 98
> > billion
> > > > > > in 2009. They could have given taxpayers thousands each to
> > stimulate
> > > > > > the economy, but that would have been too obvious and too easy.
> > > > > > Instead they "take what we work for" and toss billions of taxpayer
> > > > > > monies, to Wall street, Banks, and the Auto industry with much of
> > it
> > > > > > going to multi-million dollar bonuses to executives for doing
> > > > > > absolutely nothing. It is obvious that the government is no longer
> > a
> > > > > > governing body for the people but merely a tool used by the wealthy
> > > > > > for the wealthy, an entity without a conscience. People have become
> > > > > > just cogs in the mechanism of operational finance, pawns in
> > servitude
> > > > > > to the moguls in power. People have lost their jobs, homes,
> > health
> > > > > > benefits, investments and more as simple collateral damage, while
> > the
> > > > > > politicians are still gainfully employed and the wealthy are
> > getting
> > > > > > the creme de la creme of the good life on the backs of the working
> > > > > > class. I'm a bit amazed at the complacency of the people who just
> > get
> > > > > > slapped and turn the other cheek.
> > > > > > I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> > > > > > liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow
> > > > > > private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by
> > > > > > inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will
> > > > > > grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property
> > until
> > > > > > their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers
> > > > > > conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and
> > > > > > restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas
> > Jefferson
> > > > > > And so it is, banks deposing masses of people from their dwellings
> > > > > > without compassion, just the enforcement of a mortgage agreement,
> > one
> > > > > > which affords them the ability to earn multi-million dollar
> > salaries
> > > > > > annually. I'm just dismayed at the sight of what has happened to
> > this
> > > > > > once great country. I feel sold out. At this time in our history
> > > > > > with the day of Thanksgiving approaching and some asking what it is
> > we
> > > > > > have to be thankful for, I can only look at my own small world in
> > > > > > order to be thankful but not without looking at the big picture,
> > the
> > > > > > face of poverty around me, the pleas from local food banks and
> > charity
> > > > > > organizations living in the shadows of great wealth. Are we not
> > just
> > > > > > turkeys ourselves, bred for the feast?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
grrr, ok Chris, you wanna play "I gotta better Doors reference than
you" - how about THIS:
"I'll tell you this...
No eternal reward will forgive us now
For wasting the dawn.
Back in those days everything was simpler and more confused
One summer night, going to the pier
I ran into two young girls
The blonde one was called Freedom
The dark one, Enterprise
We talked and they told me this story
Now listen to this...
I'll tell you about Texas radio and the big beat
Soft driven, slow and mad
Like some new language
Reaching your head with the cold, sudden fury of a divine messenger
Let me tell you about heartache and the loss of god
Wandering, wandering in hopless night
Out here in the perimeter there are no stars
Out here we IS stoned
Immaculate."
Francis
On 23 Nov., 17:17, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
> grrr, ok Chris, you wanna play "I gotta better Doors reference than
> you" - how about THIS:
> "I'll tell you this...
> No eternal reward will forgive us now
> For wasting the dawn.
> Back in those days everything was simpler and more confused
> One summer night, going to the pier
> I ran into two young girls
> The blonde one was called Freedom
> The dark one, Enterprise
> We talked and they told me this story
> Now listen to this...
> I'll tell you about Texas radio and the big beat
> Soft driven, slow and mad
> Like some new language
> Reaching your head with the cold, sudden fury of a divine messenger
> Let me tell you about heartache and the loss of god
> Wandering, wandering in hopless night
> Out here in the perimeter there are no stars
> Out here we IS stoned
> Immaculate."
> Francis
> On 23 Nov., 17:17, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > C'mon, Fran...I think this is a better choice:
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> <minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:27 AM, fran the man <francish...@web.de> wrote:
> > grrr, ok Chris, you wanna play "I gotta better Doors reference than
> > you" - how about THIS:
> > "I'll tell you this...
> > No eternal reward will forgive us now
> > For wasting the dawn.
> > Back in those days everything was simpler and more confused
> > One summer night, going to the pier
> > I ran into two young girls
> > The blonde one was called Freedom
> > The dark one, Enterprise
> > We talked and they told me this story
> > Now listen to this...
> > I'll tell you about Texas radio and the big beat
> > Soft driven, slow and mad
> > Like some new language
> > Reaching your head with the cold, sudden fury of a divine messenger
> > Let me tell you about heartache and the loss of god
> > Wandering, wandering in hopless night
> > Out here in the perimeter there are no stars
> > Out here we IS stoned
> > Immaculate."
> > Francis
> > On 23 Nov., 17:17, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > C'mon, Fran...I think this is a better choice:
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > <minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > ""Minds Eye"" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to minds-eye@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<minds-eye%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.- Hide quoted text -
|
