Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
horrible.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
>> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
>> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
> I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> horrible.
> dj
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > horrible.
> > dj
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > horrible.
> > > dj
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> I hope Islamic leaders speak out in condemnation soon. But I'm not
> holding my breath.
> dj
>> On 6 Nov, 01:48, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Indeed. Recent convert.
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
>>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
>>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
>>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
>>> > > horrible.
>>> > > dj
>>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
>>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
>>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
>>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
>>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
>>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> What are our leaders thinking?
> dj
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > I hope Islamic leaders speak out in condemnation soon. But I'm not
> > holding my breath.
> > dj
> >> On 6 Nov, 01:48, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Indeed. Recent convert.
> >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> >>> > > horrible.
> >>> > > dj
> >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?
First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
used for similar acts.
It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
was born in Virginia.
Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
century or more. . . could be wrong here.
Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
in no way am surprised by it.
On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > What are our leaders thinking?
> > dj
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > I hope Islamic leaders speak out in condemnation soon. But I'm not
> > > holding my breath.
> > > dj
> > >> On 6 Nov, 01:48, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Indeed. Recent convert.
> > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > >>> > > horrible.
> > >>> > > dj
> > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
blaring music and so on.
The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
On 6 Nov, 04:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> used for similar acts.
> It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> was born in Virginia.
> Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> in no way am surprised by it.
> On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > dj
> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > I hope Islamic leaders speak out in condemnation soon. But I'm not
> > > > holding my breath.
> > > > dj
> > > >> On 6 Nov, 01:48, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> Indeed. Recent convert.
> > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > >>> > > dj
> > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
“…My own excuse for depression is that one should be depressed in this
world, feel it and cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in
this case - even more than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in
Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and Freud are about what we won't own up to and
they start before Plato…” – archy
My empathies to you Neil! And, having spent eternities with
omnipresent nausea, Sarte aside, I looked for an exit...and not a
Pollyannaish one either. Somewhere along the path I recognized the
apparent comfort with embracing the all too familiar emotional states
even to a point of munching on them morning, noon and at night along
with the associated appearance of there being No Exit from it all.
On Nov 5, 9:33 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
> as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
> priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
> Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
> depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
> cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
> than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
> Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
> A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
> scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
> we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
> stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
> orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
> light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
> they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
> Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
> take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
> because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
> blaring music and so on.
> The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
> seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
> outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
> than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
> On 6 Nov, 04:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> > most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> > More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> > terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> > used for similar acts.
> > It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> > motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> > government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> > particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> > even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> > activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> > ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> > current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> > locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> > country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> > was born in Virginia.
> > Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> > these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> > century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> > Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> > havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> > possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> > in no way am surprised by it.
> > On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > > dj
> > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > > >>> > > dj
> > > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
When I was in a wheelchair and expecting to stay that way, I did dream
about going out in a blaze of glory by assassinating Thatcher. It was
only to keep me going. Maybe this guy just clocked over a few more
miles in the abyss?
On 6 Nov, 06:02, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> “…My own excuse for depression is that one should be depressed in this
> world, feel it and cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in
> this case - even more than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in
> Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and Freud are about what we won't own up to and
> they start before Plato…” – archy
> My empathies to you Neil! And, having spent eternities with
> omnipresent nausea, Sarte aside, I looked for an exit...and not a
> Pollyannaish one either. Somewhere along the path I recognized the
> apparent comfort with embracing the all too familiar emotional states
> even to a point of munching on them morning, noon and at night along
> with the associated appearance of there being No Exit from it all.
> On Nov 5, 9:33 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
> > as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
> > priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
> > Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
> > depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
> > cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
> > than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
> > Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
> > A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
> > scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
> > we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
> > stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
> > orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
> > light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
> > they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
> > Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
> > take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
> > because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
> > blaring music and so on.
> > The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
> > seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
> > outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
> > than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
> > On 6 Nov, 04:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> > > most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> > > More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> > > terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> > > used for similar acts.
> > > It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> > > motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> > > government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> > > particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> > > even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> > > activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> > > ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> > > current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> > > locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> > > country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> > > was born in Virginia.
> > > Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> > > these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> > > century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> > > Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> > > havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> > > possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> > > in no way am surprised by it.
> > > On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > > > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > > > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > > > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > > > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > > > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > > > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > > > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > > > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > > > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > > > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > > > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > > > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > > > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > > > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > > > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > > > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > > > dj
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > > > >>> > > dj
> > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
> “…My own excuse for depression is that one should be depressed in this
> world, feel it and cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in
> this case - even more than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in
> Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and Freud are about what we won't own up to and
> they start before Plato…” – archy
> My empathies to you Neil! And, having spent eternities with
> omnipresent nausea, Sarte aside, I looked for an exit...and not a
> Pollyannaish one either. Somewhere along the path I recognized the
> apparent comfort with embracing the all too familiar emotional states
> even to a point of munching on them morning, noon and at night along
> with the associated appearance of there being No Exit from it all.
> On Nov 5, 9:33 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
> > as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
> > priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
> > Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
> > depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
> > cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
> > than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
> > Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
> > A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
> > scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
> > we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
> > stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
> > orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
> > light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
> > they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
> > Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
> > take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
> > because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
> > blaring music and so on.
> > The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
> > seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
> > outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
> > than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
> > On 6 Nov, 04:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> > > most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> > > More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> > > terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> > > used for similar acts.
> > > It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> > > motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> > > government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> > > particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> > > even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> > > activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> > > ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> > > current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> > > locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> > > country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> > > was born in Virginia.
> > > Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> > > these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> > > century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> > > Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> > > havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> > > possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> > > in no way am surprised by it.
> > > On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > > > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > > > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > > > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > > > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > > > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > > > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > > > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > > > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > > > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > > > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > > > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > > > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > > > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > > > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > > > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > > > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > > > dj
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > > > >>> > > dj
> > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
> Anyway Bill, I fixed the broken dishwasher this morning by threatening
> it with spanners. This triumph will keep me going for a while!
> On 6 Nov, 06:02, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > “…My own excuse for depression is that one should be depressed in this
> > world, feel it and cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in
> > this case - even more than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in
> > Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and Freud are about what we won't own up to and
> > they start before Plato…” – archy
> > My empathies to you Neil! And, having spent eternities with
> > omnipresent nausea, Sarte aside, I looked for an exit...and not a
> > Pollyannaish one either. Somewhere along the path I recognized the
> > apparent comfort with embracing the all too familiar emotional states
> > even to a point of munching on them morning, noon and at night along
> > with the associated appearance of there being No Exit from it all.
> > On Nov 5, 9:33 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
> > > as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
> > > priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
> > > Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
> > > depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
> > > cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
> > > than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
> > > Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
> > > A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
> > > scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
> > > we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
> > > stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
> > > orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
> > > light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
> > > they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
> > > Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
> > > take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
> > > because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
> > > blaring music and so on.
> > > The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
> > > seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
> > > outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
> > > than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
> > > On 6 Nov, 04:33, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> > > > most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> > > > More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> > > > terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> > > > used for similar acts.
> > > > It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> > > > motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> > > > government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> > > > particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> > > > even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> > > > activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> > > > ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> > > > current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> > > > locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> > > > country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> > > > was born in Virginia.
> > > > Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> > > > these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> > > > century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> > > > Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> > > > havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> > > > possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> > > > in no way am surprised by it.
> > > > On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > > > > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > > > > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > > > > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > > > > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > > > > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > > > > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > > > > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > > > > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > > > > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > > > > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > > > > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > > > > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > > > > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > > > > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > > > > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > > > > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > > > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > > > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > > > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > > > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > > > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > > > > dj
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > > > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > > > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > > > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > > > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > > > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > > > > >>> > > dj
> > > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > > > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > > > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Perhaps such fears lurk in dishwasher consciousness? The beast is on
at this very moment, sounding in perfect health and working perfectly
well with ordinary washing-up liquid rather than expensive powder. I
have just told it that the spammers will come for it should it cause
me any further need to mop the kitchen floor.
On 6 Nov, 06:20, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> While numerous types of ‘spanners’ exist, I still read it as
> ‘spammers’…a much worse fate I fear.
> On Nov 5, 10:11 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Anyway Bill, I fixed the broken dishwasher this morning by threatening
> > it with spanners. This triumph will keep me going for a while!
> > On 6 Nov, 06:02, ornamentalmind <ornamentalm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > “…My own excuse for depression is that one should be depressed in this
> > > world, feel it and cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in
> > > this case - even more than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in
> > > Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and Freud are about what we won't own up to and
> > > they start before Plato…” – archy
> > > My empathies to you Neil! And, having spent eternities with
> > > omnipresent nausea, Sarte aside, I looked for an exit...and not a
> > > Pollyannaish one either. Somewhere along the path I recognized the
> > > apparent comfort with embracing the all too familiar emotional states
> > > even to a point of munching on them morning, noon and at night along
> > > with the associated appearance of there being No Exit from it all.
> > > On Nov 5, 9:33 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm not surprised by it Orn - the religion often just seems an excuse
> > > > as it was in the Crusades. Shrinks vary a lot on sanity, just as
> > > > priests. The history of insanity is long and attitudes to it vary.
> > > > Foucault sort of said madness defines sanity. My own excuse for
> > > > depression is that one should be depressed in this world, feel it and
> > > > cope with it. I'm sure there is more deja vu in this case - even more
> > > > than the bit Don unearthed. Key issues in Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and
> > > > Freud are about what we won't own up to and they start before Plato.
> > > > A BBC documentary not long ago considered the building of nightmare
> > > > scenarios, both in Wahhabi Islam and our own governments and I think
> > > > we are living in this moral inferno. Some of it is because we won't
> > > > stand up to religious intolerance - a really trivial case here is an
> > > > orthodox Jewish couple using the Human Rights Act over a security
> > > > light in a block of flats where they have a holiday home, claiming
> > > > they are trapped in their flat by its automatic sensor on the
> > > > Sabbath. If we can't get round that kind of thing just by give and
> > > > take what chance! At the same time we have people committing suicide
> > > > because they can't get cops to turn up and deal with hostile kids,
> > > > blaring music and so on.
> > > > The Brits at least weren't killed by one of their own. Yet we don't
> > > > seem to have had proper protection in place. Security in the UK
> > > > outside airports is more or less non-existent. I feel less safe here
> > > > than abroad. The plot was lost long ago.
> > > > > First, it is my understanding that shrinks as a class are among the
> > > > > most ‘disturbed’ group of people - no surprises there.
> > > > > More importantly, what is called terrorism these days came under many
> > > > > terms in the past. There even was a period that the term anarchist was
> > > > > used for similar acts.
> > > > > It is my understanding that at the core of terrorism is the goal/
> > > > > motivation to demonstrate to the people of any given organization/
> > > > > government etc. that their leaders cannot protect them. In this, this
> > > > > particular method of political action is quite effective. I say this
> > > > > even though some countries such as Israel seem to have adapted to such
> > > > > activities. Here in the colonies, we have always had political
> > > > > ‘terrorists’, home grown as well as international. Somehow there is a
> > > > > current attempt at separating religious and/or foreign terrorists from
> > > > > locally grown politically motivated ones. There is a difference, and
> > > > > country of origin is about all there is to it. In the current case, he
> > > > > was born in Virginia.
> > > > > Of course, the notion of a person being ‘insane’ can and does arise
> > > > > these days…not so much in the past as I understand it…past of a
> > > > > century or more. . . could be wrong here.
> > > > > Regardless, using the inexpensive and effective method of wrecking
> > > > > havoc and murder among a populous is simple and in some cases the only
> > > > > possible redress. I do not condone the behavior and, at the same time
> > > > > in no way am surprised by it.
> > > > > On Nov 5, 7:30 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Perhaps it was that one Don - I knew I had some recollection. The
> > > > > > shoe bomber from the UK was also converted in prison and we seem to
> > > > > > have let some crazy Mullahs into that system, before taking action.
> > > > > > They are now reporting this scrote is not dead and stable in hospital.
> > > > > > I had one in my classes about ten years ago. I reported him but
> > > > > > nothing was done. He killed two plastic surgeons near Wakefield
> > > > > > later. This guy was half Iranian, half Iraqi, half Saudi and half
> > > > > > Palestinian - enough said on his mathematics! Our library became an
> > > > > > Islamic social club at one point, with some charmers wiping shit on
> > > > > > the books. There is still a lot of Jihadism around on our campuses.
> > > > > > No one is explaining what we are doing in these wars. I'd go myself
> > > > > > if it was about freedom (ours and that of their decent people) - but
> > > > > > it doesn't seem to be about stopping vile Iranian cops clubbing women
> > > > > > or bringing peace. Decent Afghans have left in droves and over half
> > > > > > the youth of these countries want to leave. Maybe we should be
> > > > > > training them and sending them back to sort their own mess out?
> > > > > > On 6 Nov, 03:00, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > This chaffs my ass. The guy was sentenced to death and I believe this
> > > > > > > is probably justified but he DID apologize and show remorse which is
> > > > > > > more then can be said for the Gitmo terrorists soon to be infecting
> > > > > > > the regular prison population here. These scum will do their best to
> > > > > > > convert asshats like these two losers to do crazy stuff like this.
> > > > > > > What are our leaders thinking?
> > > > > > > dj
> > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> I have a feeling of deja vu on the US incident, whether from the real
> > > > > > > >> world or literature I'm not sure.
> > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> > He seems to have been experimenting with Islam.
> > > > > > > >>> > On 6 Nov, 01:30, Don Johnson <daj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> > > I believe we will find out he was experimenting with drugs. Some
> > > > > > > >>> > > anti-psychotic cocktail. No one does this kind of thing unless they
> > > > > > > >>> > > are chemically altered somehow. At least I hope so. It is truly
> > > > > > > >>> > > horrible.
> > > > > > > >>> > > dj
> > > > > > > >>> > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:04 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> > > > Why the surprise with all the family violence that goes on?// The
> > > > > > > >>> > > > killer was a psychiatrist- perhaps- with a Muslim/Middle Eastern name
> > > > > > > >>> > > > about to deploy to Iraq. Deceased.
> > > > > > > >>> > > > On Nov 5, 6:57 pm, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> > > >> First our regrets and respect for the victims and their families.
> > > > > > > >>> > > >> What is going on when we can't even protect our people in their own
> > > > > > > >>> > > >> barracks from people they are supposed to be working with?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Without demeaning those who have suffered as a result of Hasan's
violent outrage, for which there can be little forgiveness, there
still must be an attempt to gain some understanding.
It is currently my belief that Hasan suffered from a variant of PTSD
as a result of having treated many military personnel returning from
Iraq and Afghanistan, thus learning on a daily basis the horrors those
soldiers faced, combined with his apparent devout and lifelong
adherence to Islam and being faced with an imminent deployment to
either Iraq or Afghanistan which he was trying desperately to avoid,
all of which led to his going over the edge and trying to commit
suicide by military intervention (similar to suicide by cop.)
A picture of Major Nidal Malik Hasan is beginning to emerge, but as of
the moment much of it is speculation with nothing confirmed. There
are many mysteries and contradictions surrounding Hasan.
A former imam at a Silver Springs, MD, mosque Hasan attended said that
Hasan was a lifelong Muslim and attended prayers regularly, often in
his Army uniform. Yet on a form he filled out at the mosque for those
seeking a spouse, a desire he had expressed often to others, Hasan had
listed his nationality as Palestinian although other records show his
birthplace to be Arlington, VA. Other sources indicate he is of
Jordanian descent.
His military history includes eight years as an enlisted soldier, then
serving in the ROTC while at Virginia Tech where he earned a BA in
biochemistry in 1997 at the expense of the Army. Upon graduation he
then went back to active duty in the Army where he completed his
medical training, again paid for by the Army, and rose to the rank of
Major in April, 2008.
While serving as a psychiatrist with a specialty in disaster and
preventive psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medicial Center it appears
Hasan had difficulties dealing with patients which required counseling
and extra supervision (per Dr. Thomas Grieger, a training director at
that facility). Due to patient-doctor confidentiality these
difficulties have not been revealed.
It has also come to light that six month prior to yesterday's
explosive event Hasan had come to the attention of LEOs as a result of
Internet postings on which his name appeared equating suicide bombers
with soldiers who heroically threw themselves on grenades to save the
lives of their comrades, but it is still unclear whether Hasan was the
actual author of these postings.
According to Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, VA, he had been
harassed because he was a Muslim ever since the 9/11 terrorist attacks
and that as a result he wanted to get out of the military. Apparently
this was not possible due to his commitment to the Army for having
paid for his education to become an MD and psychiatrist. She said he
even offered to repay the Army for the cost of his education but was
refused.
Col. Terry Lee, Army retired, said that Hasan hoped the President
would pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that he got into
frequent arguments with other soldiers who supported the wars. Yet in
contrast to this, Col Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical
services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Ft. Hood, said that Hasan
provided excellent care for his patients and that he was a quiet and
withdrawn man that had never shown any inclinations toward violent
behavior.
While many will disagree, I consider it fortunate that Hasan survived
his multiple gunshot wounds because we will be able to learn first-
hand what happened to this man which may prevent such horrors in the
future. It is well-known that the suicide rate in the military is at
an all-time high which to my thinking requires a deeper investigation
into the behavior and thought patterns of men like Hasan who crack
under such pressures. We can't begin to achieve solutions to problems
such as these without a deep understanding of what produces them.
I think it is also noteworthy that in spite of being in the middle of
a military base where there are many trained and armed soldiers and
military police, none of that training or armament was able to prevent
this tragedy from occurring.
It seems also necessary to note that this should not be a reason for
bashing all Muslims. A vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and
productive citizens around the world. That said, I would also note
that Islam is one of the most repressive religions in the world with
regard to women and consequently of its male adherents as well. One
can't be imprisoned without the other being in a similar but perhaps
mirror-image prison. Therefore it does not surprise me that Islam
produces such vigorous and violent radicals -- far more so than any
other religion -- though it is my belief that none of them (religions)
are worth a damn when it comes to raising up the human condition.
We will continue to learn more details in the days to come but I doubt
the full truth of this horror will ever emerge for public
consumption.
Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise, there
were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that this
man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most damage
to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with this
namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:02 AM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Without demeaning those who have suffered as a result of Hasan's
> violent outrage, for which there can be little forgiveness, there
> still must be an attempt to gain some understanding.
> It is currently my belief that Hasan suffered from a variant of PTSD
> as a result of having treated many military personnel returning from
> Iraq and Afghanistan, thus learning on a daily basis the horrors those
> soldiers faced, combined with his apparent devout and lifelong
> adherence to Islam and being faced with an imminent deployment to
> either Iraq or Afghanistan which he was trying desperately to avoid,
> all of which led to his going over the edge and trying to commit
> suicide by military intervention (similar to suicide by cop.)
> A picture of Major Nidal Malik Hasan is beginning to emerge, but as of
> the moment much of it is speculation with nothing confirmed. There
> are many mysteries and contradictions surrounding Hasan.
> A former imam at a Silver Springs, MD, mosque Hasan attended said that
> Hasan was a lifelong Muslim and attended prayers regularly, often in
> his Army uniform. Yet on a form he filled out at the mosque for those
> seeking a spouse, a desire he had expressed often to others, Hasan had
> listed his nationality as Palestinian although other records show his
> birthplace to be Arlington, VA. Other sources indicate he is of
> Jordanian descent.
> His military history includes eight years as an enlisted soldier, then
> serving in the ROTC while at Virginia Tech where he earned a BA in
> biochemistry in 1997 at the expense of the Army. Upon graduation he
> then went back to active duty in the Army where he completed his
> medical training, again paid for by the Army, and rose to the rank of
> Major in April, 2008.
> While serving as a psychiatrist with a specialty in disaster and
> preventive psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medicial Center it appears
> Hasan had difficulties dealing with patients which required counseling
> and extra supervision (per Dr. Thomas Grieger, a training director at
> that facility). Due to patient-doctor confidentiality these
> difficulties have not been revealed.
> It has also come to light that six month prior to yesterday's
> explosive event Hasan had come to the attention of LEOs as a result of
> Internet postings on which his name appeared equating suicide bombers
> with soldiers who heroically threw themselves on grenades to save the
> lives of their comrades, but it is still unclear whether Hasan was the
> actual author of these postings.
> According to Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, VA, he had been
> harassed because he was a Muslim ever since the 9/11 terrorist attacks
> and that as a result he wanted to get out of the military. Apparently
> this was not possible due to his commitment to the Army for having
> paid for his education to become an MD and psychiatrist. She said he
> even offered to repay the Army for the cost of his education but was
> refused.
> Col. Terry Lee, Army retired, said that Hasan hoped the President
> would pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that he got into
> frequent arguments with other soldiers who supported the wars. Yet in
> contrast to this, Col Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical
> services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Ft. Hood, said that Hasan
> provided excellent care for his patients and that he was a quiet and
> withdrawn man that had never shown any inclinations toward violent
> behavior.
> While many will disagree, I consider it fortunate that Hasan survived
> his multiple gunshot wounds because we will be able to learn first-
> hand what happened to this man which may prevent such horrors in the
> future. It is well-known that the suicide rate in the military is at
> an all-time high which to my thinking requires a deeper investigation
> into the behavior and thought patterns of men like Hasan who crack
> under such pressures. We can't begin to achieve solutions to problems
> such as these without a deep understanding of what produces them.
> I think it is also noteworthy that in spite of being in the middle of
> a military base where there are many trained and armed soldiers and
> military police, none of that training or armament was able to prevent
> this tragedy from occurring.
> It seems also necessary to note that this should not be a reason for
> bashing all Muslims. A vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and
> productive citizens around the world. That said, I would also note
> that Islam is one of the most repressive religions in the world with
> regard to women and consequently of its male adherents as well. One
> can't be imprisoned without the other being in a similar but perhaps
> mirror-image prison. Therefore it does not surprise me that Islam
> produces such vigorous and violent radicals -- far more so than any
> other religion -- though it is my belief that none of them (religions)
> are worth a damn when it comes to raising up the human condition.
> We will continue to learn more details in the days to come but I doubt
> the full truth of this horror will ever emerge for public
> consumption.
I don't understand why the British troops were not under sniper
cover. It seems this US loony was brought down by a female traffic
cop.
PTSD acts in strange ways and is not reliant on experiencing trauma
directly . It's very easy to go berserk amidst moral turbulence.
There is a lot worth understanding here, but in both cases, given some
expertise, I'm worried about lax security. Gun presence is not the
answer in Chris' sense - once the balloon goes up, tossers will kill
more in accident and nervous twitch than might be saved. Sentries,
snipers and armed response teams are another matter. In the UK this
guy could have gone through 100s of people.
My basic concern is we aren't looking after our people properly.
On 6 Nov, 16:16, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
> down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise, there
> were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
> issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that this
> man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most damage
> to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
> calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with this
> namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:02 AM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Without demeaning those who have suffered as a result of Hasan's
> > violent outrage, for which there can be little forgiveness, there
> > still must be an attempt to gain some understanding.
> > It is currently my belief that Hasan suffered from a variant of PTSD
> > as a result of having treated many military personnel returning from
> > Iraq and Afghanistan, thus learning on a daily basis the horrors those
> > soldiers faced, combined with his apparent devout and lifelong
> > adherence to Islam and being faced with an imminent deployment to
> > either Iraq or Afghanistan which he was trying desperately to avoid,
> > all of which led to his going over the edge and trying to commit
> > suicide by military intervention (similar to suicide by cop.)
> > A picture of Major Nidal Malik Hasan is beginning to emerge, but as of
> > the moment much of it is speculation with nothing confirmed. There
> > are many mysteries and contradictions surrounding Hasan.
> > A former imam at a Silver Springs, MD, mosque Hasan attended said that
> > Hasan was a lifelong Muslim and attended prayers regularly, often in
> > his Army uniform. Yet on a form he filled out at the mosque for those
> > seeking a spouse, a desire he had expressed often to others, Hasan had
> > listed his nationality as Palestinian although other records show his
> > birthplace to be Arlington, VA. Other sources indicate he is of
> > Jordanian descent.
> > His military history includes eight years as an enlisted soldier, then
> > serving in the ROTC while at Virginia Tech where he earned a BA in
> > biochemistry in 1997 at the expense of the Army. Upon graduation he
> > then went back to active duty in the Army where he completed his
> > medical training, again paid for by the Army, and rose to the rank of
> > Major in April, 2008.
> > While serving as a psychiatrist with a specialty in disaster and
> > preventive psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medicial Center it appears
> > Hasan had difficulties dealing with patients which required counseling
> > and extra supervision (per Dr. Thomas Grieger, a training director at
> > that facility). Due to patient-doctor confidentiality these
> > difficulties have not been revealed.
> > It has also come to light that six month prior to yesterday's
> > explosive event Hasan had come to the attention of LEOs as a result of
> > Internet postings on which his name appeared equating suicide bombers
> > with soldiers who heroically threw themselves on grenades to save the
> > lives of their comrades, but it is still unclear whether Hasan was the
> > actual author of these postings.
> > According to Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, VA, he had been
> > harassed because he was a Muslim ever since the 9/11 terrorist attacks
> > and that as a result he wanted to get out of the military. Apparently
> > this was not possible due to his commitment to the Army for having
> > paid for his education to become an MD and psychiatrist. She said he
> > even offered to repay the Army for the cost of his education but was
> > refused.
> > Col. Terry Lee, Army retired, said that Hasan hoped the President
> > would pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that he got into
> > frequent arguments with other soldiers who supported the wars. Yet in
> > contrast to this, Col Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical
> > services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Ft. Hood, said that Hasan
> > provided excellent care for his patients and that he was a quiet and
> > withdrawn man that had never shown any inclinations toward violent
> > behavior.
> > While many will disagree, I consider it fortunate that Hasan survived
> > his multiple gunshot wounds because we will be able to learn first-
> > hand what happened to this man which may prevent such horrors in the
> > future. It is well-known that the suicide rate in the military is at
> > an all-time high which to my thinking requires a deeper investigation
> > into the behavior and thought patterns of men like Hasan who crack
> > under such pressures. We can't begin to achieve solutions to problems
> > such as these without a deep understanding of what produces them.
> > I think it is also noteworthy that in spite of being in the middle of
> > a military base where there are many trained and armed soldiers and
> > military police, none of that training or armament was able to prevent
> > this tragedy from occurring.
> > It seems also necessary to note that this should not be a reason for
> > bashing all Muslims. A vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and
> > productive citizens around the world. That said, I would also note
> > that Islam is one of the most repressive religions in the world with
> > regard to women and consequently of its male adherents as well. One
> > can't be imprisoned without the other being in a similar but perhaps
> > mirror-image prison. Therefore it does not surprise me that Islam
> > produces such vigorous and violent radicals -- far more so than any
> > other religion -- though it is my belief that none of them (religions)
> > are worth a damn when it comes to raising up the human condition.
> > We will continue to learn more details in the days to come but I doubt
> > the full truth of this horror will ever emerge for public
> > consumption.
Chris, for someone who I've come to respect as a rational and
thoughful person, your post seems not based in fact and entirely
emotional -- perhaps even bordering on irrational.
There were plenty of armed people around. Most officers carry
sidearms and both military police and civilian police employed by the
military patrol the base 24/7.
As for your take on PTSD, I think you do a great disservice to the
thousands of troops who have suffered and are suffering under this
psychological disorder brought about by extreme violence. Many such
sufferers have committed much violence to themselves, their families
and strangers.
Perhaps this incident has hit close to home for you -- I hope not, but
that's the only explanation I can surmise given your past rational and
intelligent posts.
On Nov 6, 9:16 am, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
> down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise, there
> were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
> issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that this
> man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most damage
> to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
> calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with this
> namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
"... On Nov 6, 9:51 am, archytas <nwte...@googlemail.com> wrote: ..."
> There is a lot worth understanding here, but in both cases, given some
> expertise, I'm worried about lax security.
Lax security seems to be the norm on U.S. military bases. Perhaps
because they are at home and feel safe. I've no doubt this will now
change as it should.
When I was dealing in military surplus a few years back but still post
9/11, I was able to get on most bases and drive around freely with
little more than showing my driver's license and proof of insurance.
This always struck me as odd given the armament and high value targets
that are on most bases. I once queried an MP at the gate about this
apparent lack of security and he told me I should mind my own
business. Go figure.
Civilian police responded quickly. Why do you think that is, Gruff? Because
there were no Military Police there. Additionally, the gun battle lasted for
30 minutes, and only involved several civilian police officers. Why do you
think that is, Gruff? Because no one else was armed in the Readiness Center
where this occurred.
Your response is irrational, and for some reason blind to the facts of the
situation. My anger is completely rational, given the circumstances.
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:34 PM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris, for someone who I've come to respect as a rational and
> thoughful person, your post seems not based in fact and entirely
> emotional -- perhaps even bordering on irrational.
> There were plenty of armed people around. Most officers carry
> sidearms and both military police and civilian police employed by the
> military patrol the base 24/7.
> As for your take on PTSD, I think you do a great disservice to the
> thousands of troops who have suffered and are suffering under this
> psychological disorder brought about by extreme violence. Many such
> sufferers have committed much violence to themselves, their families
> and strangers.
> Perhaps this incident has hit close to home for you -- I hope not, but
> that's the only explanation I can surmise given your past rational and
> intelligent posts.
> On Nov 6, 9:16 am, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
> > down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise,
> there
> > were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
> > issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that
> this
> > man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most
> damage
> > to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
> > calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with
> this
> > namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
Chris I agree- but the assement of this guy was very good--and I think to
put it in a short assement--this guy was going aganist his own people
--was it a choice in his mind ---
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
> down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise, there
> were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
> issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that this
> man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most damage
> to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
> calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with this
> namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:02 AM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Without demeaning those who have suffered as a result of Hasan's
>> violent outrage, for which there can be little forgiveness, there
>> still must be an attempt to gain some understanding.
>> It is currently my belief that Hasan suffered from a variant of PTSD
>> as a result of having treated many military personnel returning from
>> Iraq and Afghanistan, thus learning on a daily basis the horrors those
>> soldiers faced, combined with his apparent devout and lifelong
>> adherence to Islam and being faced with an imminent deployment to
>> either Iraq or Afghanistan which he was trying desperately to avoid,
>> all of which led to his going over the edge and trying to commit
>> suicide by military intervention (similar to suicide by cop.)
>> A picture of Major Nidal Malik Hasan is beginning to emerge, but as of
>> the moment much of it is speculation with nothing confirmed. There
>> are many mysteries and contradictions surrounding Hasan.
>> A former imam at a Silver Springs, MD, mosque Hasan attended said that
>> Hasan was a lifelong Muslim and attended prayers regularly, often in
>> his Army uniform. Yet on a form he filled out at the mosque for those
>> seeking a spouse, a desire he had expressed often to others, Hasan had
>> listed his nationality as Palestinian although other records show his
>> birthplace to be Arlington, VA. Other sources indicate he is of
>> Jordanian descent.
>> His military history includes eight years as an enlisted soldier, then
>> serving in the ROTC while at Virginia Tech where he earned a BA in
>> biochemistry in 1997 at the expense of the Army. Upon graduation he
>> then went back to active duty in the Army where he completed his
>> medical training, again paid for by the Army, and rose to the rank of
>> Major in April, 2008.
>> While serving as a psychiatrist with a specialty in disaster and
>> preventive psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medicial Center it appears
>> Hasan had difficulties dealing with patients which required counseling
>> and extra supervision (per Dr. Thomas Grieger, a training director at
>> that facility). Due to patient-doctor confidentiality these
>> difficulties have not been revealed.
>> It has also come to light that six month prior to yesterday's
>> explosive event Hasan had come to the attention of LEOs as a result of
>> Internet postings on which his name appeared equating suicide bombers
>> with soldiers who heroically threw themselves on grenades to save the
>> lives of their comrades, but it is still unclear whether Hasan was the
>> actual author of these postings.
>> According to Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, VA, he had been
>> harassed because he was a Muslim ever since the 9/11 terrorist attacks
>> and that as a result he wanted to get out of the military. Apparently
>> this was not possible due to his commitment to the Army for having
>> paid for his education to become an MD and psychiatrist. She said he
>> even offered to repay the Army for the cost of his education but was
>> refused.
>> Col. Terry Lee, Army retired, said that Hasan hoped the President
>> would pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and that he got into
>> frequent arguments with other soldiers who supported the wars. Yet in
>> contrast to this, Col Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical
>> services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Ft. Hood, said that Hasan
>> provided excellent care for his patients and that he was a quiet and
>> withdrawn man that had never shown any inclinations toward violent
>> behavior.
>> While many will disagree, I consider it fortunate that Hasan survived
>> his multiple gunshot wounds because we will be able to learn first-
>> hand what happened to this man which may prevent such horrors in the
>> future. It is well-known that the suicide rate in the military is at
>> an all-time high which to my thinking requires a deeper investigation
>> into the behavior and thought patterns of men like Hasan who crack
>> under such pressures. We can't begin to achieve solutions to problems
>> such as these without a deep understanding of what produces them.
>> I think it is also noteworthy that in spite of being in the middle of
>> a military base where there are many trained and armed soldiers and
>> military police, none of that training or armament was able to prevent
>> this tragedy from occurring.
>> It seems also necessary to note that this should not be a reason for
>> bashing all Muslims. A vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and
>> productive citizens around the world. That said, I would also note
>> that Islam is one of the most repressive religions in the world with
>> regard to women and consequently of its male adherents as well. One
>> can't be imprisoned without the other being in a similar but perhaps
>> mirror-image prison. Therefore it does not surprise me that Islam
>> produces such vigorous and violent radicals -- far more so than any
>> other religion -- though it is my belief that none of them (religions)
>> are worth a damn when it comes to raising up the human condition.
>> We will continue to learn more details in the days to come but I doubt
>> the full truth of this horror will ever emerge for public
>> consumption.
> Civilian police responded quickly. Why do you think that is, Gruff? Because
> there were no Military Police there. Additionally, the gun battle lasted for
> 30 minutes, and only involved several civilian police officers. Why do you
> think that is, Gruff? Because no one else was armed in the Readiness Center
> where this occurred.
> Your response is irrational, and for some reason blind to the facts of the
> situation. My anger is completely rational, given the circumstances.
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:34 PM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Chris, for someone who I've come to respect as a rational and
> > thoughful person, your post seems not based in fact and entirely
> > emotional -- perhaps even bordering on irrational.
> > There were plenty of armed people around. Most officers carry
> > sidearms and both military police and civilian police employed by the
> > military patrol the base 24/7.
> > As for your take on PTSD, I think you do a great disservice to the
> > thousands of troops who have suffered and are suffering under this
> > psychological disorder brought about by extreme violence. Many such
> > sufferers have committed much violence to themselves, their families
> > and strangers.
> > Perhaps this incident has hit close to home for you -- I hope not, but
> > that's the only explanation I can surmise given your past rational and
> > intelligent posts.
> > On Nov 6, 9:16 am, Chris Jenkins <digitalprecip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Actually, there was no available armament to the soldiers who were shot
> > > down, otherwise, the encounter would have been much shorter. Likewise,
> > there
> > > were no military police there, which was why civilian police handled the
> > > issue. What is truly notable, but that you seem to have missed, is that
> > this
> > > man sought out a scenario where he would be able to inflict the most
> > damage
> > > to unarmed soldiers incapable of protecting themselves. This was a
> > > calculated act of premeditated malice, which does not align well with
> > this
> > > namby pamby victim of PTSD that you are portraying.
There's something bigger going on here. Last week there was the
discovery of the mass murderer in Cleveland, OH, then the Ft. Hood
killings, and just hours ago another mass killing in Orlando, FL.
I suspect it's the hard financial times we're all suffering under,
plus the onset of the holiday seasonn, plus the wars that appear no
nearer resolution than ever, plus the media's money grubbing coverage
of all the horrors in the world .... it's pushing people who might
otherwise maintain themselves over the edge.
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:14 PM, gruff <trader...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There's something bigger going on here. Last week there was the
> discovery of the mass murderer in Cleveland, OH, then the Ft. Hood
> killings, and just hours ago another mass killing in Orlando, FL.
> I suspect it's the hard financial times we're all suffering under,
> plus the onset of the holiday seasonn, plus the wars that appear no
> nearer resolution than ever, plus the media's money grubbing coverage
> of all the horrors in the world .... it's pushing people who might
> otherwise maintain themselves over the edge.
|
