Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 19:45:49 by Between the Lines
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--A chemist who led to the invention of the birth control pill says he regrets the demographic catastrophe that has resulted from people using the contraceptive device to separate reproduction from sexuality.
Carl Djerassi, the 85-year-old Austrian chemist who was one of three whose formulation of synthetic hormones paved the way for the pill, wrote an opinion piece in the Austrian newspaper Der Standard lamenting the way the pill has been used.
Austria's population now includes more people over age 65 than under 15, and Djerassi said the country soon will face an "impossible situation" as the working class becomes too small to support the needs of senior citizens. Each family in Austria needs to produce three children to maintain population levels, he said, but on average couples have 1.4 children.
The fall in the birth rate in European countries, he said, is an epidemic far worse than obesity, but it receives less attention.
In order to curb the population problem, Djerassi said in the column that Austrians would have to adopt quickly an immigration policy designed to counteract the effects of widespread contraception before the population commits "national suicide."
R. Albert Mohler Jr., in a 2006 New York Times Magazine article, called the birth control pill one of the most profound developments ever.
"I cannot imagine any development in human history, after the Fall, that has had a greater impact on human beings than the pill," Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said. "It became almost an assured form of contraception, something humans had never encountered before in history.
"Prior to it, every time a couple had sex, there was a good chance of pregnancy. Once that is removed, the entire horizon of the sexual act changes. I think there could be no question that the pill gave incredible license to everything from adultery and affairs to premarital sex and within marriage to a separation of the sex act and procreation," Mohler added.
Mollie Ziegler, a Gannett newspaper reporter, noted on the blog GetReligion.org that Djerassi's comments, made in December, have failed to make mainstream headlines in the United States.
"U.S. media tend to be a bit American-centric ... but just because this story broke in Austria is no reason to ignore it here," she wrote. "And no matter where Djerassi dropped his bombshell allegation or where he lives, how many millions of women here in the United States have used oral contraceptives and might be interested in something their creator has to say about its unintended consequences? There's just no news justification for obscuring this story."
Mohler, writing in a May 2006 article on his website, said some versions of the birth control pill have abortifacient qualities.
"Not all birth control is contraception, for some technologies and methods do not prevent the sperm from fertilizing the egg, but instead prevent the fertilized egg from successfully implanting itself in the lining of the womb," he said. "Such methods involve nothing less than an early abortion. This is true of all IUDs and some hormonal technologies. A raging debate now surrounds the question of whether at least some forms of the Pill may also work through abortifacient effect, rather than preventing ovulation."
It was inevitable the automobile would be invented.
It was inevitable that, as a result, many, many businesses would be destroyed, along with the families that created them.
It was inevitable that many of those people would pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and learn new skills to avoid going homeless and hungry. Many, of course, went into the auto industry. In short, they accepted the idea of a new kind of economy, horribly painful though it was.
In the same vein, since good contraception methods have been pursued since biblical times, it was inevitable that we would have all the methods we do after several thousand years, and that women, especially, would make great use of them because they want to. Yes, this means we will have great economic problems. Maybe it’s time to develop a "sense of sacrifice" for the elderly, the poor, and the disabled, since we cannot continue relying on the traditional economic means to support them. (A lot more personal frugality would be a nice start, since that was the way of most of the world until the 20th century, according to David M. Tucker.) Many countries believe in putting the elderly first. Why don’t we?
Besides, it seems to me that before Social Security, old people who didn't manage to have children didn't get a lot of sympathy - they were expected to plan ahead. Period.
<x...@m.com> wrote: > IF so, that's indicative that he's probably come down with > Alzheimer's Syndrome. How unfortunate!
The fact that the birthrate has fallen in Europe need not have been a tragedy in itself. However, Europe has tried to maintain the solvency of its pension system through admitting more immigrants. This, too, is not a bad thing in itself; if people from poor countries get a chance to make a better life for themselves in rich, stable democracies, this is good for them.
Sadly, although Brigitte Bardot did seem bigoted in the past, the events of September 11, 2001 have now made her look like a prophet. Bigotry is still bigotry, though, and objecting to Muslims because wearing veils makes them look funny is bigotry. But as events in Denmark and the Netherlands and especially the United Kingdom have demonstrated, the security risk Europe faces is real.
But that's an argument for looking elsewhere for immigrants, not for abolishing the Pill.
On Nov 3, 1:59 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> The fact that the birthrate has fallen in Europe need not have been a > tragedy in itself. However, Europe has tried to maintain the solvency > of its pension system through admitting more immigrants. This, too, is > not a bad thing in itself; if people from poor countries get a chance > to make a better life for themselves in rich, stable democracies, this > is good for them.
> Sadly, although Brigitte Bardot did seem bigoted in the past, the > events of September 11, 2001 have now made her look like a prophet. > Bigotry is still bigotry, though, and objecting to Muslims because > wearing veils makes them look funny is bigotry. But as events in > Denmark and the Netherlands and especially the United Kingdom have > demonstrated, the security risk Europe faces is real.
Why did they choose to admit so many Arabs? Europe could have gotten an unlimited supply of mostly honest, hardworking immigrants from Asia or Latin America. Why admit so many backward-looking Arabs who do not assimilate well in a modern society?
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:15 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> The fact that the birthrate has fallen in Europe need not have been a > tragedy in itself. However, Europe has tried to maintain the solvency > of its pension system through admitting more immigrants. This, too, is > not a bad thing in itself; if people from poor countries get a chance > to make a better life for themselves in rich, stable democracies, this > is good for them.
If, however, the outsiders proceed to sponge on welfare, rather than pay taxes, disaster will ensue as the native population ages. Europe is importing voters to produce a political result, rather than workers to produce an economic result.
> Sadly, although Brigitte Bardot did seem bigoted in the past, the > events of September 11, 2001 have now made her look like a prophet. > Bigotry is still bigotry, though, and objecting to Muslims because > wearing veils makes them look funny is bigotry.
Objecting to veils because it is part of a program that results in infidel women being raped, and muslim women not being raped, thereby ensuring conversion to Islam by both males and females, is, however, not bigotry.
> But as events in > Denmark and the Netherlands and especially the United Kingdom have > demonstrated, the security risk Europe faces is real.
Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread. Violence is the primary method by which Islam has spread. The borders of Islam are bloody. Sporadic violence and terror sets in when Muslims are about one or two percent of the population. Full scale war, as in Thailand and the Philippines, sets in when Muslims are about five to ten percent of the population.
France, at about six percent Muslim, similar to the Philippines, is about halfway to war.
> Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 19:45:49 by Between the Lines
> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--A chemist who led to the invention of the birth > control pill says he regrets the demographic catastrophe that has > resulted from people using the contraceptive device to separate > reproduction from sexuality.
> Carl Djerassi, the 85-year-old Austrian chemist who was one of three > whose formulation of synthetic hormones paved the way for the pill, > wrote an opinion piece in the Austrian newspaper Der Standard > lamenting the way the pill has been used.
> Austria's population now includes more people over age 65 than under > 15, and Djerassi said the country soon will face an "impossible > situation" as the working class becomes too small to support the needs > of senior citizens. Each family in Austria needs to produce three > children to maintain population levels, he said, but on average > couples have 1.4 children.
> The fall in the birth rate in European countries, he said, is an > epidemic far worse than obesity, but it receives less attention.
> In order to curb the population problem, Djerassi said in the column > that Austrians would have to adopt quickly an immigration policy > designed to counteract the effects of widespread contraception before > the population commits "national suicide."
> R. Albert Mohler Jr., in a 2006 New York Times Magazine article, > called the birth control pill one of the most profound developments > ever.
> "I cannot imagine any development in human history, after the Fall, > that has had a greater impact on human beings than the pill," Mohler, > president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said. "It became > almost an assured form of contraception, something humans had never > encountered before in history.
> "Prior to it, every time a couple had sex, there was a good chance of > pregnancy. Once that is removed, the entire horizon of the sexual act > changes. I think there could be no question that the pill gave > incredible license to everything from adultery and affairs to > premarital sex and within marriage to a separation of the sex act and > procreation," Mohler added.
> Mollie Ziegler, a Gannett newspaper reporter, noted on the blog > GetReligion.org that Djerassi's comments, made in December, have > failed to make mainstream headlines in the United States.
> "U.S. media tend to be a bit American-centric ... but just because > this story broke in Austria is no reason to ignore it here," she > wrote. "And no matter where Djerassi dropped his bombshell allegation > or where he lives, how many millions of women here in the United > States have used oral contraceptives and might be interested in > something their creator has to say about its unintended consequences? > There's just no news justification for obscuring this story."
> Mohler, writing in a May 2006 article on his website, said some > versions of the birth control pill have abortifacient qualities.
> "Not all birth control is contraception, for some technologies and > methods do not prevent the sperm from fertilizing the egg, but instead > prevent the fertilized egg from successfully implanting itself in the > lining of the womb," he said. "Such methods involve nothing less than > an early abortion. This is true of all IUDs and some hormonal > technologies. A raging debate now surrounds the question of whether at > least some forms of the Pill may also work through abortifacient > effect, rather than preventing ovulation."
The pill should maybe be used less in Europe, but definitely much more in places like India, South America and Africa. Ultimately, it might very well be the only real solution to the global warming problem (and all the others that come with the Earth's present unbearable over- population).
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:15 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> > wrote:
> > The fact that the birthrate has fallen in Europe need not have been a > > tragedy in itself. However, Europe has tried to maintain the solvency > > of its pension system through admitting more immigrants. This, too, is > > not a bad thing in itself; if people from poor countries get a chance > > to make a better life for themselves in rich, stable democracies, this > > is good for them.
> If, however, the outsiders proceed to sponge on welfare, rather than > pay taxes, disaster will ensue as the native population ages. Europe > is importing voters to produce a political result, rather than workers > to produce an economic result.
> > Sadly, although Brigitte Bardot did seem bigoted in the past, the > > events of September 11, 2001 have now made her look like a prophet. > > Bigotry is still bigotry, though, and objecting to Muslims because > > wearing veils makes them look funny is bigotry.
> Objecting to veils because it is part of a program that results in > infidel women being raped, and muslim women not being raped, thereby > ensuring conversion to Islam by both males and females, is, however, > not bigotry.
> > But as events in > > Denmark and the Netherlands and especially the United Kingdom have > > demonstrated, the security risk Europe faces is real.
> Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread. > Violence is the primary method by which Islam has spread. The borders > of Islam are bloody. Sporadic violence and terror sets in when > Muslims are about one or two percent of the population. Full scale > war, as in Thailand and the Philippines, sets in when Muslims are > about five to ten percent of the population.
> France, at about six percent Muslim, similar to the Philippines, is > about halfway to war.
It has been established practice in Europe and elsewhere to draw national bounderies based on religious and linguistic differences. The Muslim, mainly Malay speaking southern provinces of Thailand were conquered by Thai monarchs many years ago. Give them independence or allow them to join with Malaysia and the problem will disappear.
> It has been established practice in Europe and elsewhere to draw > national bounderies based on religious and linguistic differences. The > Muslim, mainly Malay speaking southern provinces of Thailand were > conquered by Thai monarchs many years ago. Give them independence or > allow them to join with Malaysia and the problem will disappear.
The great majority in the southern provinces of Thailand are Buddhist - more than two Buddhists for every Muslim - and the great majority of Malays in what is now Malaysia used to be Buddhist, but converted under conditions where it was unsafe to remain Buddhist, where Buddhists were apt to be raped or murdered.
The fundamental problem that the border between Dar al Islam and Dar Al Harb always tends to move into Dar al Harb unless Islamic aggression resisted by large scale violence, holy war and savage religious persecution. If the Southernmost provinces are yielded to Muslims, then trouble will proceed in the southernmost remaining provinces, for that is what has been happening over the last thousand years or so. Tolerance towards Muslims is invariably answered by intolerance by Muslims.
<ffra...@mailandnews.com> wrote: >It has been established practice in Europe and elsewhere to draw >national bounderies based on religious and linguistic differences.
I had the impression that Djerassi was a pretty smart guy - he is the one who has written plays also? On the other hand, who even today is ready to take advice on socially necessary human breeding practice from some guy from Austria? And anyway, what about them rubber things? Every home should have one.
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:04:38 -0800, Mike Schilling wrote: > Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote: >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:51:54 -0800 (PST), Franco >> <ffra...@mailandnews.com> wrote:
>>> It has been established practice in Europe and elsewhere to draw >>> national bounderies based on religious and linguistic differences.
>> Tell that to the Belgians and the Basques.
> Religion was a large part of why Belgium seceded from the Netherlands.
The problem with any such national-boundary scheme is that people persist in settling down where they want to, not where the planners want them to. As a result, even if the center of each territory is mostly group X, both sides of the border tend to have a considerable admixture of both X and Y, not to mention people who are the results of intermarriage.
-- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
<j...@jfeldredge.com> wrote: > The problem with any such national-boundary scheme is > that people persist in settling down where they want > to, not where the planners want them to.
History is that sharp boundaries between Muslim and no Muslim states only exist where there is near genocidal persecution (which there frequently is) and that when the boundaries are not sharp, the Muslim minority starts making war on the non Muslim majority once it reaches ten to twenty percent or so.
> Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 19:45:49 by Between the Lines
Upon further consideration: WOE unto thee, Sound of Trumpet. WOE unto "Free Republic". WOE even unto "Baptist Press News". I just noticed this is dated to freaking FEBRUARY. So I went and dug. Well, Here's the article that appeared in JANUARY. <http://derstandard.at/fs/1233250577262>
But it isn't the opinion piece by Djerassi. It is about Djerassi deploring the MISINTERPRETATION of his opinion piece.
In Austrian.
England's "Guardian" newspaper is mentioned in the Trumpet story and also here. If you can make sense of Google Translate (and can make it recognise the Austrian language), it appears to say that the Guardian / withdrew/ their version of the story and apologised. Remember, this is January. I haven't checked, but they are meticulous about public retractions.
The Baptist Free Press guy is writing in February, and isn't aware of that. And now it's November.
And: "His Deadly Invention"? Where do you get /that/ from? The oral contraceptive pill suppresses ovulation. That's "eggs" to you. A lady has lots of "egg" cells inside her body, and every month one or more of them oddle down into her tummy. While you're taking The Pill, the eggs just stay where they are. But nobody dies. On the other hand, a lot of women who aren't taking The Pill die from getting pregnant.
>> Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 19:45:49 by Between the Lines
>Upon further consideration: WOE unto thee, Sound of Trumpet. WOE unto >"Free Republic". WOE even unto "Baptist Press News". I just noticed >this is dated to freaking FEBRUARY. So I went and dug. Well, Here's >the article that appeared in JANUARY. ><http://derstandard.at/fs/1233250577262>
>But it isn't the opinion piece by Djerassi. It is about Djerassi >deploring the MISINTERPRETATION of his opinion piece.
>In Austrian.
That would be German. Or at most, Austrian German.
On Nov 3, 1:03 pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
Although I'm less than expert on the history of Europe, North America, Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and many other parts of the world, I do think you'd have a hard time supporting that statement.
> Violence is the primary method by which Islam has spread.
Islam has been no more violent than Christianity, although Islamic violence has generally been more recent.
> The borders > of Islam are bloody. Sporadic violence and terror sets in when > Muslims are about one or two percent of the population. Full scale > war, as in Thailand and the Philippines, sets in when Muslims are > about five to ten percent of the population.
I think you're attributing violence to Islam whenever there are significant numbers of Muslims present, and either ignoring violence or blaming it on something else when Muslims are in short supply.
> France, at about six percent Muslim, similar to the Philippines, is > about halfway to war.
I'm interested in how you (think you) know that France is six percent Muslim, given that no statistics are collected.
Given that French society is substantially less violent than American society, I'm also interested in why you think France is closer to war than North America is.
Were you to live in France, or spend a lot of time there, you might conclude that integration and thus secularization is proceeding rapidly. You might also conclude that the causes of such violence as does occur are no different than the causes of the greater violence in ghetto areas of the United States.
>Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
And intimidation, murder, and violence.
> The borders >of Islam are bloody.
But ignore the Celts who had their culture erased by brutal early Christians. Notice what happened to indingenous people worldwide. Don't forget centuries of brutal anti-Semitism. The Crusades. The Holocaust.
> >Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
> And intimidation, murder, and violence.
> > The borders > >of Islam are bloody.
> But ignore the Celts who had their culture erased by brutal early > Christians. Notice what happened to indingenous people worldwide. > Don't forget centuries of brutal anti-Semitism. The Crusades. The > Holocaust.
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:12:00 -0800 (PST), Jenny6833A
<Jenny68...@aol.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 1:03?pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
><snip>
>> Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
>Although I'm less than expert on the history of Europe, North America, >Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and many other >parts of the world, I do think you'd have a hard time supporting that >statement.
It was spread through Western Europe by Charlemagne at sword point.
And of course there was the reformation when Catholicism tried to eliminate Protestantism and vice versa by killing each other. A precursor of this was the extermination of the Cathars, a heretical Christian sect.
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:12:00 -0800 (PST), Jenny6833A wrote: > On Nov 3, 1:03 pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>> Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
> Although I'm less than expert on the history of Europe, North America, > Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and many other > parts of the world, I do think you'd have a hard time supporting that > statement.
Not really. How do you think all those countries and continents were christianised? The one main difference to the spread of Islam is that Christianity was not used as a prime and explicit rationale for war but rather as a tool for subverting local cultures and social structures to aid secular colonialism.
••• Rest in Peace ••• ••• George Richard Tiller, MD ••• ••• A True American HERO! ••• ••• August 8, 1941 – May 31, 2009 ••• ••• Visit -- http://iamdrtiller.com •••
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:12:00 -0800 (PST), Jenny6833A wrote: > > On Nov 3, 1:03 pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
> > Although I'm less than expert on the history of Europe, North America, > > Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, and many other > > parts of the world, I do think you'd have a hard time supporting that > > statement.
> Not really. How do you think all those countries and continents > were christianised? The one main difference to the spread of > Islam is that Christianity was not used as a prime and explicit > rationale for war but rather as a tool for subverting local > cultures and social structures to aid secular colonialism.
Baloney! It was convert or die in the majority of cases.
> On Nov 6, 10:18ï¿=3Fam, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote: > > James A. Donald ï¿=3F<jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
> > >Evangelism is the primary method by which Christianity has spread.
> > And intimidation, murder, and violence.
> > > ï¿=3FThe borders > > >of Islam are bloody.
> > But ignore the Celts who had their culture erased by brutal early > > Christians. ï¿=3FNotice what happened to indingenous people worldwide. ï¿=3F > > Don't forget centuries of brutal anti-Semitism. ï¿=3FThe Crusades. ï¿=3FThe > > Holocaust.
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