On Nov 7, 3:25 am, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
> Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Nov 6, 8:26 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote: > >> Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >No such implication; "et al." stands for a Latin phrase (et alii?) > >> >meaning "and others"; the full list would be rather lengthy.
> >> That's right. If by "and others" you mean "and other people." > >> "And other [thing]s" would be _et alia_.
> >What's the difference between _et alia_ and _et cetera_? Are they just > >synonyms?
> "Et cetera" is "and so on".
No, "et cetera" = "and other things"; the same "ceter-", I guess, as in "ceteris paribus". "And so on" = "usw" = "und so weiter".
: Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> : I enjoy French pop music precisely because I can't tell how insipid : the lyrics are -- they just sound purty.
I suppose it's similar for rhe Swedish lyrics of that internet virus, Caramelldansen. Once you look up the translation... well, yes, "insipid" is a fairly good word for it I suppose. Not sure about "purdy" though. Certainly not the speedycake remix, anyways.
> >> In article <drache-D5AA47.18294606112...@news.eternal-september.org>, > >> erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> >> >Well, mine is so eclectic that I'd have to classify it as "almost > >> >anything but rock and other recent popular stuff": aka Romantic, > >> >Classical, Baroque, Renaissance, Medieval, jazz, folk. . .8-)
> >> Well, that's odd, because "folk" and "rock" are the same bucket for > >> me. Although I don't know exactly what you call "folk" so I can't > >> say for certain that we mean the same thing by it.
> >SCREAM! "folk" = traditional folk music and music in that style. > >"rock" is that awful stuff I've disliked since it first began to appear:
> OK, so it appears that by "folk" we mean the same thing, but by "rock" > you mean "modern music I don't like". Your version of "folk" would > then include musicians like David Wilcox and Richard Shindell; you > probably would like some Dar Williams but by no means all.[1] Patty > Larkin is probably Right Out.
> >loud, simplistic, often mercifully incomprehensible and otherwise > >ranging from unpleasant to nauseating until it degenerates into "rap", > >which is even worse.
> >Clear enough? 8-)
> Not really, because I don't see any connection between rock and > hip-hop. Well, beyond "erilar doesn't like either one".
You can work out a common ancestry from the blues and from other earlier forms of popular music. Of course, hip-hop, via rap, has another ancestor that it doesn't share with rock, the "new poets" and other beat-era Black and White vocal things.
> -GAWollman
> [1] What is it with musical Williamses? Dorothy, Alan, Brooks, > Keller, Hank (x 2), John, a few more I can't easily bring to mind....
Lucinda
It's a very common name. An All-Williams team has been proposed as the strongest last-name all-star team for baseball. It is probably strong in every field.
In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful erilar declared:
> In article <hd2ugi$1dc...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>, > woll...@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) wrote:
>> Well, that's odd, because "folk" and "rock" are the same bucket for >> me. Although I don't know exactly what you call "folk" so I can't >> say for certain that we mean the same thing by it.
> SCREAM! "folk" = traditional folk music and music in that style. > "rock" is that awful stuff I've disliked since it first began to appear: > loud, simplistic, often mercifully incomprehensible and otherwise > ranging from unpleasant to nauseating until it degenerates into "rap", > which is even worse.
The problem is, there are a number of rock bands now that have turned to the past for inspiration and are producing what you'd probably consider folk music.
>They could be saying "Yummy yummy yummy, I got love in my tummy" or >"Um-brella-ella-ella" and I wouldn't know."
Ah yes. The lyrics to Handel's many Italian operas have the same problem. If they're sung in Italian, I can figure out approximately what they're about, and they sound fine. If they're translated into English they sound abominably twee.
-- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at hotmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress. Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote: > The debit card doesn't let me spend money I don't have. Having gotten > in that trap once, I see no reason to even permit myself the option.
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:40:20 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote: > >On Nov 6, 11:48 pm, cryptoguy <treifam...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Not so much horrible, as incoherent. I love the way Coldplay's 'Viva > >> la Vida' and 'Clocks' sound wonderful, but try to make sense of the > >> lyrics - you can't. Same with Polyphonic Spree's 'Light & Day'.
> >This is not a new phenomenon. "Wildwood Flower" is a song so old that > >it has sometimes been attributed innacurately to "traditional" > >although the song was written in 1860, with words by Maud Irving and > >music by Joseph Philbrick Webster > >The words are not horrible, perhaps, but virtually every performer > >from Woody Guthrie to the Carter Family and ever since, seems to > >mangle them in some way. This even has a name; it is called "the folk > >process." It means that people cannot sing what is right in front of > >them. I have always wanted to ask the Carters what: > >"Oh, I'll twine with my mingles and waving black hair," MEANS, > >although the original, > >"I'll twine 'mid the ringlets of my raven black hair," isn't really > >much better.
> There was an intermediate stage in that mutation, I think. The > version I saw first, somewhere back in the day of the dinosaurs, > had it "I will twine and will mingle my raven black hair/With the > roses so red, etc." -- which I personally like much better than > the original, authenticity be damned. It didn't help that one of > the flowers listed is a nonsense-name, so that different singers > have tried different substitutions, and one can only speculate > about what plant was originally meant.
> >Then Iris Dement and Joan Baez get to sing it and the song no longer > >has anything like agreed-upon lyrics.
> Baez undoubtedly heard it on a train to Richmond, and couldn't > quite make out the words in such noisy surroundings.
Folk songs are subject to mutation and selection, they even have sex, so I guess they must evolve. How many generations would it take for something like "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" to evolve into something like an Irving Berlin composition?
> >> Well, that's odd, because "folk" and "rock" are the same bucket for > >> me. Although I don't know exactly what you call "folk" so I can't > >> say for certain that we mean the same thing by it.
> > SCREAM! "folk" = traditional folk music and music in that style. > > "rock" is that awful stuff I've disliked since it first began to appear: > > loud, simplistic, often mercifully incomprehensible and otherwise > > ranging from unpleasant to nauseating until it degenerates into "rap", > > which is even worse.
> The problem is, there are a number of rock bands now that have > turned to the past for inspiration and are producing what you'd > probably consider folk music.
That cut sounds like "singer-songwriter faux folk," which includes a lot of great music, like Joni Mitchell. She does some blues numbers, like that one about the pony.
On Nov 7, 12:15 pm, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article > <26a497b7-6d52-499b-bc2d-85be67b63...@d5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, > Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My credit card works exactly the same, except that the cash is drawn > > from my checking account in a lump sum once a month, and I get a > > cashback bonus. That way it's much easier to keep track of the exact > > amount in my checking account at any given time, and then there's the > > small matter of the float: a dollar six weeks from now is worth a > > minuscule amount less than a dollar now. Also, unlike a debit card, I > > don't have to enter a PIN every time I use it. What are the advantages > > of a debit card again?
> They don't immediately start charging you a huge fee from the day you > use one to get cash from an ATM, because it's your own money.
That's why I never use my credit card to get cash, or to pay my taxes or anything that charges a fee for using a credit card.
In article <51mbf5d2cukt6v2ikdvrc6g9nnbj64j...@news.eternal-september.org>, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:41:28 -0500, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> >wrote:
>>In the Year of the Earth Ox, the Great and Powerful Dorothy J Heydt >>declared:
>>> But small stores where you know the people have gone the way of >>> all flesh too.
>>No they haven't. You just need to get further away from the city.
Well, there are none in Vallejo AFAICT. Getting further away means getting into the big shopping centers, which by definition have no small stores. They're also out of my range unless I can talk Hal into driving me.
>Or into the more stable neighborhoods IN the city.
There are none of those in Vallejo either, not any more.
-- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at hotmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress. Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
>> When I was at university, I earned a few beans by typing papers, >> file cards, et cetera for faculty in my department, which was >> Linguistics. The typewriter I used had had the dot chiseled out >> from under the question mark, so that it could be used for >> glottal stop. To type a real question mark, I typed period, >> backspace, glottal stop. And there was one key that was so often >> used to make multiple characters that the machine didn't space >> after it. But I've forgotten what it was.
>Probably ´/` ....
Can you describe what that would look like when printed out? When I read it in trn, it was a string of characters I couldn't pronounce and I suspect you couldn't either. In vi, which I'm using to reply here, it looks like backslash-xc2 backslash-xb4 forwardslash-`.
-- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at hotmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress. Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
On 7 Nov, 20:12, Sean O'Hara <seanoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I enjoy French pop music precisely because I can't tell how insipid > the lyrics are -- they just sound purty.
I once heard a Spanish choral group on tv singing "Caterina, Te Amo" (Catherine, I love You), which appeared to be the Spanish version of John Denver's "Annie's Song" and it sounded a whole lot better. Of course, they may just have been better singers.
Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > Well, I've been reading articles indicating that some companies > will cancel your account if you pay it all off.
There's been speculation about that. To date I've seen no indication that companies are doing it. I also have many cards, and haven't carried a balance basically forever. No cards have been cancelled. It's easy for companies to bluster about things like that, but actually implementing the plan is a different story.
> Because it isn't > bringing in as much money any more. And that other companies > will be reluctant to take you on, because if your first card is > cancelled it dings your credit rating.
That doesn't hurt your credit, other than lowering your credit/debt ratio, which is high anyway.
> > Your card company is making 2-5% of every transaction you make with > > the card, even if you always pay on time and never pay them a dime > > of interest or fees. That's plenty of money for them.
> No it isn't. They want more.
Sure, they WANT more. But they are smart enough to know that 0 is lower yet. You aren't going to force people who pay off to balannces to start carrying one. In spite of everything, it's still a highly competitive business.
Brian
-- Day 277 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
>> > When my daughter was one, she used to throw an occasional tantrum. >> > I shut her in the bedroom and wouldn't let her out until she >> > quieted down. Tantrums are not much fun without an audience. >> And putting them in the bedroom if they didn't want to go >> involves force.
> Two-year-olds are not very heavy. 8-)
Anyway, you can't have an absolute prohibition on using force on a toddler. It's hard enough to keep them out of oncoming traffic WITH the use of force. On the latest (3.5) we've been able to use corporal punishment so rarely that a spat on the hand, let alone a single spank, has shock and outrage value way out of proportion to actual pain. That's exactly the way we like it.
Cheryl wrote: > You have less protection against fraud with a credit card than a > debit card (as long as you keep your debit card PIN secret).
Not true at all. Credit cards have statutory protections. There is a defined dispute policy in place the the company must follow. There are strict limits BY LAW on the liabilities for the consumer. And, most important, with a debit dispute your money is gone and you're trying to get it back. With a credit card, they're trying to get it from you. Worst comes to worst, you refuse. Then they either write it off (after hectoring you for years and adding it to your credit report) or try a judicial process.
Brian
-- Day 278 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
cryptoguy wrote: > On Nov 5, 6:04 pm, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> > Children! When I was one, and when I was in high school, in fact, > > everyone I knew had party lines. If you knew their ring, you could call > > people on your line without bothering the operator.
> Those still existed in some rural areas when I was a kid, but I never > really had to deal with one.
> What I do remember, right up into the 80s, is homes have one (1) > phone, usually in the front hall or the kitchen, hardwired to the > wall. Extensions were rare. This made it essentially impossible to > make a private call, and a conversation by a teenager could get > terminated with extreme prejudice if a parent wanted to use the phone, > or was expecting a call (no call waiting).
Of course extensions /existed/, and were plot devices in the sorts of stories where, well, use of a phone eextension would be a plot device.
Michael Stemper wrote: > In article <slrnhf6cqt.adu....@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes: > >Dorothy J Heydt <djhe...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>And a whole lot of contemporary (i.e., still alive and kicking) > >>composers I'd never heard of either.
> >>And a certain amount of Sir Paul McCartney, who turns out to be > >>quite pleasant to listen to. And Karl Jenkins.
> >I was just about to post asking how long we still have before the Beatles > >(as predicted by Moran) become classical music.
> Moran?
> In the 1964 Doctor Who story arc, _The Chase_, Vicki says of The > Beatles, "I didn't know they played classical music!" This sure > pre-dates anything published by Daniel Keys Moran.
It kind of pre-dates The Beatles. Vicki was a time traveller from the future; I think she and some guy were survivors of a spaceship crash that was featured in the TV show.
Matt Hughes wrote: > On 6 Nov, 10:46, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
> > I've always liked the definition used by a teenager who came into my > > office when I had a cassette player going - I can't remember what was > > playing, but it was something vaguely folk or 'traditional'. She said > > respectfully 'Oh, you like classical music!', and when I looked puzzled, > > added, gesturing at the machine 'It doesn't have any words.'
> Which puts the Ventures in the same category as the Juliard Quartet. > And brings up another memory of things that we don't have anymore: > the instrumental pop hit. Apache. Walk Don't Run. Stranger on the > Shore. Pipeline. Green Onions.
Music to dance to occasionally makes a hit still (in the UK), but it's faster music than some of the material you mention. Often a few sung or spoken words are included, as with sampling it's just another instrument. Or more words but not really making coherent sense. But then that also goes for apparent intentional lyrics sometimes.
>>> When I was at university, I earned a few beans by typing papers, >>> file cards, et cetera for faculty in my department, which was >>> Linguistics. The typewriter I used had had the dot chiseled out >>> from under the question mark, so that it could be used for >>> glottal stop. To type a real question mark, I typed period, >>> backspace, glottal stop. And there was one key that was so often >>> used to make multiple characters that the machine didn't space >>> after it. But I've forgotten what it was.
>>Probably ´/` ....
>Can you describe what that would look like when printed out? >When I read it in trn, it was a string of characters I couldn't >pronounce and I suspect you couldn't either. In vi, which I'm >using to reply here, it looks like backslash-xc2 backslash-xb4 >forwardslash-`.
And now I've seen it again in trn, I copied it down and can report that it looked like capital A with a caret (^) over it, close-quote ', forwardslash, open-quote `.
And I *think*, after thinking about it a lot, that the key that didn't advance on the Linguistics Department typewriter was a subscript dot, below the line of type (as distinguished from an ordinary period, which is on it), for describing a whole set of retroflex characters used in transcribing Sanskrit and in some other languages.
-- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at hotmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress. Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
>>> > When my daughter was one, she used to throw an occasional tantrum. >>> > I shut her in the bedroom and wouldn't let her out until she >>> > quieted down. Tantrums are not much fun without an audience.
>>> And putting them in the bedroom if they didn't want to go >>> involves force.
>> Two-year-olds are not very heavy. 8-)
The heck you say. My twenty-month-old grandson is too heavy for me to lift, and a couple of pounds more and he'll be too heavy for Hal to lift.
>Anyway, you can't have an absolute prohibition on using force on a >toddler. It's hard enough to keep them out of oncoming traffic WITH the >use of force. >On the latest (3.5) we've been able to use corporal punishment so rarely >that a spat on the hand, let alone a single spank, has shock and outrage >value way out of proportion to actual pain. That's exactly the way we >like it.
There is an age, from maybe four to maybe ten, when you can tell the kid that you're going to count to ten and if he doesn't shape up by then, *then* you will spank. Very quickly he'll learn to stop whatever it was when you say "One." But these are kids more-or-less too young to use telephones.
-- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at hotmail dot com Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress. Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
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