> The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
> 1. National defense
> 2. All foreign relations and issues
> 3. Postal
> 4. Currency
> 5. Interstate commerce and transportation
> 6. State disputes

> All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
> laws.
> The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
> states rights.

>The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
>1.  National defense
>2.  All foreign relations and issues
>3.  Postal
>4.  Currency
>5.  Interstate commerce and transportation
>6.  State disputes

>All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
>laws.
>The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
>states rights.

> The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
> 1. National defense
> 2. All foreign relations and issues
> 3. Postal
> 4. Currency
> 5. Interstate commerce and transportation
> 6. State disputes

> All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
> laws.
> The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
> states rights.

> _______________________________________________________________________
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

> You should note that this right-wing libertarian point of view is
> shared by only a tiny minority, even within the Republican Party.

> William Coleman  (ramashiva)

> > The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
> > 1.    National defense
> > 2.    All foreign relations and issues
> > 3.    Postal
> > 4.    Currency
> > 5.    Interstate commerce and transportation
> > 6.    State disputes

> > All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
> > laws.
> > The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
> > states rights.

> I remember, this is a warmed over posting a couple of years old.  And my
> recollection was...

> 3. POSTAL?   As out number 3 obligation?   What pre-constitutional
> leaflet did you get this list from?

> Why Postal in deference to all other communication modes?

> In the 21st century almost all billing comes from within your state.
> Almost all packages from services other than the USPS.

> The fact that this is even on this list, means that you're purposely
> ignoring tons of things that are more important than Postal.  Drug
> Approval, Patent office, Meat Inspection, Environmental laws.  Or is
> what you are saying.  No, I mean that only things *I* like should belong
> in number 5.  Or you are saying, that drugs in California are totally ok
> to be different than drugs in Oregon.

> While re-thinking the republic is a good a noble cause.  I think you
> will have a tough time really believing that having 50 sets of
> environmental laws are good for anybody.  That for the most part, what
> you instead see is 50 overlapping bureaucracies regulating and enforcing
> the exact same things.  That this uneveness in regulation costs tax
> payers a tremendous portion of there overall tax burden for... What?
> The right to protest and be different?  Is the government and country
> better suited because credit card companies all come from the state that
>   allows the most usurious rates, so that even though the majority of
> the citizens in the supermajority of the states say this is wrong, it
> still happens?

> That 10,000 corporations are all formed in the same office in the same
> office complex in Deleware.  For the deception of companies, individuals
> and the government alike (elite LLC).  This is somehow better for the
> country.

> This isn't a racism, or liberal point.  This is an argument for smaller,
> more transparent, more predictable, cheaper government.

> Postal, was only on that list, because there was a recognition of the
> basic interconnectedness of communication and technology.  And as surely
> as the telegraph, interstate highway, and the internet has come along,
> this interconnectedness is even greater.  We are more US citizens any of
> us than a citizen of any state.  We move, our dollars go beyond our
> neighborhood and state.  We all care about the bigger picture. We are
> not the republic we have born into.  It no longer takes 3 weeks for a
> message to get from Washington DC to California, indeed I can download a
> movie from the Netherlands in a flash, and play poker on servers from
> canada to the Rock of Gibralter.

> EVERYTHING is interstate.  EVERYTHING is related, and it is time for the
> end of uneven, torturous, unfair, and ridiculous differences in state
> regulations and enforcement.   California shouldn't be allowed to spin
> off into never never land any more than louisiana should be prevented
> from educating their children.   These don't make our country stronger
> to allow all these smart people to do all these stupid things.

> Back to the basics please?  How about we all stop playing this game?

> The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
> 1. National defense
> 2. All foreign relations and issues
> 3. Postal
> 4. Currency
> 5. Interstate commerce and transportation
> 6. State disputes

> All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
> laws.
> The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
> states rights.

> > Federal Government please get back to the beginning basics.

> > The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
> > 1.    National defense
> > 2.    All foreign relations and issues
> > 3.    Postal
> > 4.    Currency
> > 5.    Interstate commerce and transportation
> > 6.    State disputes

> > All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
> > laws.
> > The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
> > states rights.

> American citizens lost more of our rights under Bush , than any other
> president in our history

> Not counting Lincoln?

> >> American citizens lost more of our rights under Bush , than any other
> >> president in our history

> > Not counting Lincoln?

> Wow, that's the very first commendable post I've seen come from you,
> Risky.  Congrats.

> Follow :)

>> The Feds. should only be involved with the following issues:
>> 1.     National defense
>> 2.     All foreign relations and issues
>> 3.     Postal
>> 4.     Currency
>> 5.     Interstate commerce and transportation
>> 6.     State disputes

>> All other issues should be handled by the states according to each states
>> laws.
>> The federal government appears to have a great desire to take away all
>> states rights.

>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com

>I remember, this is a warmed over posting a couple of years old.  And my
>recollection was...

>3. POSTAL?   As out number 3 obligation?   What pre-constitutional
>leaflet did you get this list from?

>Why Postal in deference to all other communication modes?

>In the 21st century almost all billing comes from within your state.
>Almost all packages from services other than the USPS.

>The fact that this is even on this list, means that you're purposely
>ignoring tons of things that are more important than Postal.  Drug
>Approval, Patent office, Meat Inspection, Environmental laws.  Or is
>what you are saying.  No, I mean that only things *I* like should belong
>in number 5.  Or you are saying, that drugs in California are totally ok
>to be different than drugs in Oregon.

>While re-thinking the republic is a good a noble cause.  I think you
>will have a tough time really believing that having 50 sets of
>environmental laws are good for anybody.  That for the most part, what
>you instead see is 50 overlapping bureaucracies regulating and enforcing
>the exact same things.  That this uneveness in regulation costs tax
>payers a tremendous portion of there overall tax burden for... What?
>The right to protest and be different?  Is the government and country
>better suited because credit card companies all come from the state that
>  allows the most usurious rates, so that even though the majority of
>the citizens in the supermajority of the states say this is wrong, it
>still happens?

>That 10,000 corporations are all formed in the same office in the same
>office complex in Deleware.  For the deception of companies, individuals
>and the government alike (elite LLC).  This is somehow better for the
>country.

>This isn't a racism, or liberal point.  This is an argument for smaller,
>more transparent, more predictable, cheaper government.

>Postal, was only on that list, because there was a recognition of the
>basic interconnectedness of communication and technology.  And as surely
>as the telegraph, interstate highway, and the internet has come along,
>this interconnectedness is even greater.  We are more US citizens any of
>us than a citizen of any state.  We move, our dollars go beyond our
>neighborhood and state.  We all care about the bigger picture. We are
>not the republic we have born into.  It no longer takes 3 weeks for a
>message to get from Washington DC to California, indeed I can download a
>movie from the Netherlands in a flash, and play poker on servers from
>canada to the Rock of Gibralter.

>EVERYTHING is interstate.  EVERYTHING is related, and it is time for the
>end of uneven, torturous, unfair, and ridiculous differences in state
>regulations and enforcement.   California shouldn't be allowed to spin
>off into never never land any more than louisiana should be prevented
>from educating their children.   These don't make our country stronger
>to allow all these smart people to do all these stupid things.

>Back to the basics please?  How about we all stop playing this game?

>> risky biz wrote:

>>>> American citizens lost more of our rights under Bush , than any other
>>>> president in our history
>>> Not counting Lincoln?

>> Wow, that's the very first commendable post I've seen come from you,
>> Risky.  Congrats.

>> Follow :)

> You probably don't like Lincoln because he was associated with the end of
> slavery in America.

> Well, since the federal government *is* us.  We should have that "right"
> all the time to control the federal government.  But I am not sure what
> the underlying question here is.   What is special about the word federal
> in here.  What if it is state, or city?

> Well, since the federal government *is* us.  We should have that "right"
> all the time to control the federal government.  But I am not sure what
> the underlying question here is.   What is special about the word
> federal in here.  What if it is state, or city?

> Or are you saying that it would be ok to have an uneven enforceable
> morality set across the country.  And I think that is a quaint notion of
> a bygone era, that the unifomity of enforcement of commerce and behavior
> is more appropriate in a world where we are closer and more
> interconnected.   It simply isn't the type of world that it used to be.

> There was an underlying logic that made sense that Postal and Interstate
> commerce that was put in to our constitution.  That logic has been
> followed through with the civil war, the civil rights act, title 9, the
> fda, the ftc, and really poorly with some others.  It is the fact that
> we are not a collective of individuals, in small towns, areas,
> religions, and states.  That we are not a collective of massive
> differences brought together for the common good.  But that indeed, that
> we are more a uniform country, with uniform expectations on how we treat
> each other, and the country side.  And that uniformity comes from the
> federal government, and not the state or the city.

>> Well, since the federal government *is* us.  We should have that "right"
>> all the time to control the federal government.  But I am not sure what
>> the underlying question here is.   What is special about the word federal
>> in here.  What if it is state, or city?

> The federal is NOT us, you fucking dope, Johnny.  The state is us.  The
> federal is, the federal.  Don'tcha know nothing about what this country was
> founded on?

>> Remember when the United States was referred to as "These United
>> States" and not "The United States"?   There is a difference.

> The states created the fed, not the other way around.

> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
> prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or
> to the people."

> Is Johnny T. fucked up in the head or what?  Johnny T. is one of the
> weirdest of all regular RGPers I can think of.  He's right up there with
> Bryan Kimmes and Boise/RGP Loner.

> I predict Johnny will not say a fucking thing about this post.  Sure, when I
> made a long post and asked nobody to respond to it, THEN he had to make
> several remarks.  But on this, he knows he is full of shit, and will
> certainly keep his big mouth shut.

>> Well, since the federal government *is* us.  We should have that "right"
>> all the time to control the federal government.  But I am not sure what
>> the underlying question here is.   What is special about the word federal
>> in here.  What if it is state, or city?

>The federal is NOT us, you fucking dope, Johnny.  The state is us.  The
>federal is, the federal.  Don'tcha know nothing about what this country was
>founded on?

> This is too stupid for words.

> >> Remember when the United States was referred to as "These United
> >> States" and not "The United States"?   There is a difference.

> > The states created the fed, not the other way around.

> > "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
> > prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or
> > to the people."

> > Is Johnny T. fucked up in the head or what?  Johnny T. is one of the
> > weirdest of all regular RGPers I can think of.  He's right up there with
> > Bryan Kimmes and Boise/RGP Loner.

> > I predict Johnny will not say a fucking thing about this post.  Sure, when I
> > made a long post and asked nobody to respond to it, THEN he had to make
> > several remarks.  But on this, he knows he is full of shit, and will
> > certainly keep his big mouth shut.

> Wow.

> Yes I know that line.

> And if you have any clue as to the history and logic behind the
> Interstate commerce clause.  You have any clue as to the history and
> logic behind the Civil War, the Civil Rights Act, Title IX, The EPA, The
> Clean Air Act, The FDA, and the FCC.  You will understand that for many
> many reasons we no longer live in a collection of "These United States",
> and that wishing us back there, does not make sense.

> The founders were correct in their judgement of why there needed to be
> that clause, and the logic behind the Postal Service being federal.  It
> was an unassailable logic.  The logic of the seperated states has
> completely washed away.   It is no longer that time nor geography.  We
> now spend countless billions of dollars in our economy to maintain an
> anachronistic system of overlapping bureaucracies that simply do not
> have to be there.   We need smaller not bigger governments.  We do not
> need thousands of bureaucrats enforcing 50+ different laws over the same
> things.

> This is not good for the citizens, the businesses that want to survive
> in this country, and the businesses that want to interact with this
> country.  It is not good for security, economy, or political will of the
> individual.

> Unlike you, whom add really no thought to this thread at all.  I
> actually applauded the point of the thread to rethink the republic.
> Unlike the original posters rehashed thoughts which really don't
> contribute much, but point out that the founders understood the logic of
> interdependence REQUIRES federal loci of services.  If you apply that
> logic, you realize that the correct view is not to go back to the
> future, but instead, go forward in the future.

> It is time for us to remove the tyrannies of tin-horn state regulations.
>   That apply differently.  The whole thing with credit cards and usury
> laws are a perfect example of how the people of 49 states are screwed in
> defiance of their OWN state determinations, because state 50 in the
> desperate plea for income has decided to do so.  Why?  Because of a weak
> application of the ICC.   The Usury laws should be federal, not state
> by state!

> Incorporation laws should be federal.  It should make absolutely no
> sense that we all go to deleware.  This is State Law becoming defacto
> federal Law.  But a citizen in Wyoming has nothing to say about it.

> Again yet another example of the failure of this system.

> We have airports and ports controlled by state authorities even though
> the security problems are federal.  You have local corruption, because
> there is no watch dog above them.

> At one time, this federation made sense based on size, distance,
> communication, and huge lack of interconnectedness.   It doesn't as much
> any more.

> Now, kindly shut the fuck up about trying to divine motivations and
> actions about me.  It doesn't make you look smarter, and I am pretty
> sure you have never been correct about me.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

>> Is there any place at all where you DON'T think Citizens have to do
>> what the Federal government tells them they must do, or what they
>> cannot do?

>Well, since the federal government *is* us.  We should have that "right"
>all the time to control the federal government.  But I am not sure what
>the underlying question here is.   What is special about the word
>federal in here.  What if it is state, or city?

>There was an underlying logic that made sense that Postal and Interstate
>commerce that was put in to our constitution.  That logic has been
>followed through with the civil war, the civil rights act, title 9, the
>fda, the ftc, and really poorly with some others.  It is the fact that
>we are not a collective of individuals, in small towns, areas,
>religions, and states.  That we are not a collective of massive
>differences brought together for the common good.  But that indeed, that
>we are more a uniform country, with uniform expectations on how we treat
>each other, and the country side.  And that uniformity comes from the
>federal government, and not the state or the city.