On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:10:22 -0500, John the Savage
<savage0
...@gmail.com> wrote:
>FL Turbo wrote:
>>>>> If if wasn't us, who was it? Was it God? Did God cut down all the
>>>>> trees, Turbo? Did God start practicing "totalitarian agriculture" and
>>>>> change the entire surface of the planet? Did God build the cities,
>>>>> slums, and farms that have crowded so many species out of existence
>>>>> right before our eyes? Did God pull all this carbon out of the Earth
>>>>> and start burning it so that you could sit on your ass on a Monday night
>>>>> and communicate with the rest of the world? Did God build the dams that
>>>>> reduced formerly raging rivers to slow drips? Did God pump nitrogen
>>>>> based fertilizer into the ground until it ran off into the Gulf causing
>>>>> huge dead spots where nothing can live? Did God create the Great
>>>>> Pacific Garbage Patch? Did God fill all the fish with mercury?
>> I noticed.
>> You managed to cram a whole lot of Environmentalist Whacko talking
>> points into a single paragraph.
>> You didn't really expect a serious answer to them, did you?
>So you're just giving up, then? Let me remind you where you are. A few
>messages up, you said this, in response to my quoted paragraph above:
>> You are assuming that the changes in Nature are being caused by us.
Is this my quote that you are talking about?
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>>>> You are assuming that the changes in Nature are being caused by us.
>>>> Not exactly the way to go about "proving" something, eh?
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If so, I probably didn't word it correctly.
I should have said something like:
"You are assuming that ALL of the changes in Nature are being caused
by us."
I will definitely agree that there are situations where there are
changes to the ecology that are Mankind contributes to.
The currently disappearing ice caps in Kilimanjaro being one of them.
It's quite a stretch to extrapolate from that, to claiming that the
planet is inevitably on a sure path to higher and higher temperatures,
all caused by our CO2 production.
>I have listed numerous obvious, indisputable changes in the biosphere
>brought on by the recent activities of man. They are not "talking
>points". I did expect you to at least understand what I was getting at;
>perhaps I expected to much. You manage only to wave your hand at all of
>them, without being able to explain why a single one is contrary to
>fact. You do not even make an attempt, yet you hold smugly to your
>claim that the recent, massive changes in nature may not be caused by man.
>Your defensive condescension is unconvincing, and perhaps you should
>just give up your line. If you'd like to continue, you need to make a
>rational argument for at least one of these two points:
>(1) These massive, recent changes in nature I have listed do not exist
>(2) These massive, recent changes in nature I have listed are not caused
>by man
I wouldn't argue against either of those points, except to point out
that they don't prove your basic, implied assumption that Mankind will
ultimately turn the entire planet into an uninhabitable wasteland.
You and I have had these types of conversations before, haven't we?
You, the young guy, being full of gloom and doom and despair over the
future of Mankind.
Me, the old guy, being full of hope for the future of Mankind, with
new technology being able to fix the problems that come up, and
improve our quality of life.
Just to cherry pick one of the questions in your little sermon.
Yes, I'm damn glad we have been able to pluck carbon out of the earth
so we can burn it, and I can sit on my ass and communicate with the
rest of the world.
Anybody operating an excavating machine should be damn glad he can sit
on his ass and dig dirt for the construction of a new building, rather
than doing the back breaking work with a hand shovel.
In fact, all of us in our daily lives have reason to be thankful that
we learned how to dig carbon out of the earth and burn it in useful
ways.
Heh.
Look who's sermonizing now, eh?
(That would be me.)
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At every turn, the West is now being hobbled by demands to remove dams
and hydro electricity, to stop drilling for oil, to stop using nuclear
power, to greatly reduce military spending, to corrupt NASA with
useful fools in positions of power, to replace extremely
cost-effective petroleum with silly wind power schemes, to tax driving
and commerce, to end space exploration, to make the UN the arbiter of
world government, to end the free flow of information through the
internet, to promote the belief that CO2 is causing catastrophic
climate change, to promote the argument that taxpayers in
industrialized countries must pay exorbitant penalties for “carbon”
use, while giving a free pass to all others, to demonizing oil, coal,
natural gas, and hydroelectric power, etc., etc.
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