> On Nov 3, 12:43 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > > wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > the hospital!
> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> > more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd > > have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you > > wanted that.......
> It would cut down on doctors/anesthesiologist/etc administrative costs > and they in turn could pass the savings on to the hospital.
so adding one more level of administrative/clerical costs would pass on savings? Interesting......
> On Nov 3, 1:46 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:08 pm, Chris Mihos <cmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > the hospital!
> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > I'd like to see them have sales and discounts and weekly ads in the > > > newspaper.
> > > IT'S LABOR DAY! C-SECTIONS HALF OFF!!
> > > or
> > > ALL APPENDIXES MUST GO! LIMITED TIME OFFER!!!
> > > or
> > > buy a new kidney from us and we'll install it ABSOLUTELY FREE!
> > > or how about a rewards program? three visits to the emergency room > > > gets you one free visit in the future.
> > > i think these kinds of ideas could get some traction....
> > ummm...thats not the way we play the game......
On Nov 3, 2:08 pm, RaginPage <btpage0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:51 pm, RaginPage <btpage0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > So the gripe isn't so much about different billing sources as it is > > > that this health care reform bill addresses very few of the problems > > > that lead to high cost, inefficient health care, and saddle us with a > > > price tag that not only defies reason
> > see thats another issue.....medical care cost a lot of money! DEAL > > WITH IT! Once that assumption is made, then any sort of legislation > > can be attempted.
> That's a bone of contention. Those in favor of the reform claim that > the costs are way over what they could and should be.
and the $50 steak at shula's I had a few nights ago was over what it could have been too..but I still had it......tough shit for me....and tough shit for patients.....
> On Nov 3, 4:08 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> > mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8725274b-2d3a-4f0c- > > 9217-40e1b077c...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> > > On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: > > >> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:24e1f018-4ad6-4f39- > > >> 9fa7-eb4c179de...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> > >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't > > find....so > > >> > I'll just respond here....
> > >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > >> > the hospital!
> > >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > >> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
> > > huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy > > > or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to > > > separate inpatient from outpatient......
> > >> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see > > >> bills from all his subcontractors.
> > > probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training > > > for a gazillion years either....
> > Yeah, I'm willing to bet the general contractor that built the $2 billion > > dollar fabrication plant next to where I used to work didn't have any > > schooling or training.
> maybe he did and maybe he didn't...but I bet the 15 different > subcontractors(and the 20 different subcontractors they had) don't > have a gazillion years of training.....it's not important anyways. > the latter point is.
> > > either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an > > > elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the > > > providers.....
> > As opposed to the current system - which has a dozen different eleborate > > administrative systems between the patient and each of the dozen > > providers...
> wtf are you talking about? My current attending is a consult-liason > psych....he bills with no administrative costs at all....just do a > consult, and then his office/practice bills to the pt/insurer....thats > it....
> if that was routed through the hospital, you have at least one more > step.....and more costs to go with it.
> and other specialities that do an inpatient/outpt mix are exactly the > same way.....
> > -- > > Aaron- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
His office/practice does all their billing work for free? There's no software involved? The practice I'm most familiar with has twice+ as many support staff (excluding nurses - I'm talking non-clinical staff only) as doctors.
> On Nov 3, 4:37 pm, mianderson <clay...@excite.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 4:08 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> > > mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8725274b-2d3a-4f0c- > > > 9217-40e1b077c...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> > > > On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: > > > >> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:24e1f018-4ad6-4f39- > > > >> 9fa7-eb4c179de...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> > > >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't > > > find....so > > > >> > I'll just respond here....
> > > >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > >> > the hospital!
> > > >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > >> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
> > > > huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy > > > > or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to > > > > separate inpatient from outpatient......
> > > >> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see > > > >> bills from all his subcontractors.
> > > > probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training > > > > for a gazillion years either....
> > > Yeah, I'm willing to bet the general contractor that built the $2 billion > > > dollar fabrication plant next to where I used to work didn't have any > > > schooling or training.
> > maybe he did and maybe he didn't...but I bet the 15 different > > subcontractors(and the 20 different subcontractors they had) don't > > have a gazillion years of training.....it's not important anyways. > > the latter point is.
> > > > either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an > > > > elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the > > > > providers.....
> > > As opposed to the current system - which has a dozen different eleborate > > > administrative systems between the patient and each of the dozen > > > providers...
> > wtf are you talking about? My current attending is a consult-liason > > psych....he bills with no administrative costs at all....just do a > > consult, and then his office/practice bills to the pt/insurer....thats > > it....
> > if that was routed through the hospital, you have at least one more > > step.....and more costs to go with it.
> > and other specialities that do an inpatient/outpt mix are exactly the > > same way.....
> > > -- > > > Aaron- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> His office/practice does all their billing work for free? There's no > software involved?
sure there is....but he is 50/50 intpatient/oupatient, so he's going to need that anyways......
if(under rsfcs borked idea) everything went centrally through the hospital he would still need to keep that and then there would be more clerical staff needed through the inpatient connection......
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:46:44 -0800 (PST), mianderson
<mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote: >earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >I'll just respond here....
>my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >the hospital!
>I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
I just want one consolidated bill.
Say I go into St. Anthony's Medical Center for some reason. I would like all the services I receive there to be billed through one billing service. I know it will never happen, but it isn't like this would be very hard to do. -- "The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore." Jimmy Page & Robert Plant
On Nov 3, 4:48 pm, BillyZoom <medav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 4:41 pm, mianderson <clay...@excite.com> wrote:
> > tough shit for patients.....
> Well, at least you're up front about it.
no...you're taking that out of context...it should be "tough shit for patients who expect world class mecical car for pretty much any condition in an efficient manner".....umnmmm yeah, that costs money. deal.
<mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 12:27 pm, "Wolfie" <bgbdw...@gte.net> wrote: >> "mianderson" wrote
>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> > the hospital!
>> Yeah! And if you go have an old tire replaced on your >> car, you should expect:
>> 1) A bill from the garage for using their service area and >> the tire itself; >> 2) A bill from the hoist operator; >> 3) A bill from the guy who removes & places the wheel on the car; >> 4) A bill from the guy who removes & places the tire on the rim; >> 5) A bill from the guy who moves the car into & out of the service >> area; and >> 6) A bill from the guy who got the tire from the warehouse and >> delivered it to the garage.
>1) those are often the same guy
Actually, "6)" is almost *never* the same guy as the others. And "1)" is like getting a bill from the hospital while the rest are like getting a bill from each physician.
>2) in the case they aren't, they probably could be in terms of a skill >set. try asking a psychiatrist who gets consulted on a post-op >patient to have also performed the surgery. >3) the guys who do brakes and tires didnt go to school and training >and fellowship for a gazillion years....
>HTH
What does "3)" have to do with anything? It is still a skill set and they don't charge anything near what the guys who went "to school and training and fellowship for a gazillion years...." charge either.
>> Of course, all the individual bills have their own overhead >> to account for producing & processing the bill, their own >> extra waste disposal fees, their own adjustments to account >> for written-off service, their own fees for insurance and >> other overhead, etc.
>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> You're right, the above scenario is obviously better. Who'd >> expect to go to a place for service and be presented with one >> bill regardless of the actual number of people involved with >> providing the service?
>> Ah, the joys of paying 8,527 separate bills when you buy >> a new car! Who'd want to forego that?
-- "I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
On Nov 3, 4:55 pm, mianderson <clay...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 4:48 pm, BillyZoom <medav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 4:41 pm, mianderson <clay...@excite.com> wrote:
> > > tough shit for patients.....
> > Well, at least you're up front about it.
> no...you're taking that out of context...it should be "tough shit for > patients who expect world class mecical car for pretty much any > condition in an efficient manner".....umnmmm yeah, that costs money. > deal.
See, here's proof that he's no sock. A sock can't have Asperger's.
> On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > the hospital!
> > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!! What is hard > about that to understand?
that depends on the situation. Some larger systems contract with groups to provide services and actually own the group practice. They can set the rate that the doctors charge and if they want to use their hospital, the salaries as well.
<mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> >wrote: >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> > I'll just respond here....
>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> > the hospital!
>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital? >because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!!
This prevents them from using a unified billing service because... WHY?
>What is hard about that to understand?
-- "A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away." - Barry Goldwater
<mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> >wrote: >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> > I'll just respond here....
>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> > the hospital!
>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
>more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd >have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you >wanted that.......
The Mayo Clinic seems to do just fine with it... -- "Man, I'd give anything to be as articulate as Steve Jobs." - Bill Gates
>On Nov 3, 2:35 pm, Dan Bretta <nuda...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> On Nov 3, 12:43 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> >> > wrote: >> > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> > > > I'll just respond here....
>> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> > > > the hospital!
>> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
>> > more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd >> > have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you >> > wanted that.......
>> It would cut down on doctors/anesthesiologist/etc administrative costs >> and they in turn could pass the savings on to the hospital.
>so adding one more level of administrative/clerical costs would pass >on savings? Interesting......
No. It would cut out a level of administrative and clerical work.
The Mayo Clinic makes this model work and it is one of the best, if not THE best hospitals in the world. -- "On a morning from a Bogart movie In a country where they turn back time You go strolling through the crowd like Peter Lorre Contemplating a crime." Al Stewart & Peter Wood
<mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: >> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so >> > I'll just respond here....
>> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
>> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from >> > the hospital!
>> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
>> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
>huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy >or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to >separate inpatient from outpatient......
If he works for the hospital - like they do at the Mayo Clinic - I don't see why it would matter if they're inpatient or outpatient.
>> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see >> bills from all his subcontractors.
>probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training >for a gazillion years either....
You keep saying this like it makes some kind of difference. The cost of the training should add to the amount of the bill, not the complexity of the bill.
>either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an >elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the >providers.....
No. The providers would simply work for the hospital. -- "No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude." Sir Karl Popper
> On Nov 3, 1:37 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > > wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > the hospital!
> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> > because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!! What is hard > > about that to understand?
> that depends on the situation. Some larger systems contract with > groups to provide services and actually own the group practice. They > can set the rate that the doctors charge and if they want to use their > hospital, the salaries as well
Im very aware of this....I know people in those situations....but for the most part(especially if they dont severely limit services) they are not cost competitive....or they are semi cost competitive at best........
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:37:55 -0800 (PST), mianderson
> <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > >wrote: > >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > >> > I'll just respond here....
> >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > >> > the hospital!
> >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> >> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital? > >because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!!
> This prevents them from using a unified billing service because... WHY?
ummmm....if patients want to pay for a bunch of "go betweens" for the providers and inpatient service.....fine with me. I dont give a ****. But it would cost a little extra for the same service.
> wtf are you talking about? My current attending is a consult-liason > psych....he bills with no administrative costs at all....just do a > consult, and then his office/practice bills to the pt/insurer....thats > it....
> if that was routed through the hospital, you have at least one more > step.....and more costs to go with it.
> and other specialities that do an inpatient/outpt mix are exactly the > same way.....
Anyone could set up a networked app to take care of all this, mia - each doctor/specialist/lab/tech logs into a certain section of the hospital website and submits their individual charges.
App simply organizes these to produce a nice, clean, itemized bill for the consumer and insurer (and, never forget that you're in the service industry, boy - try to maintain the proper 'tude, dewd). The insurer makes it's payment to the hospital, the consumer chips in his portion (if required) and the hospital disperses the funds accordingly.
If your method really *was* the superior method, every industry that involves numerous folks working together on a single project or for a single consumer would bill individually in this manner. Why isn't that the case?
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:43:07 -0800 (PST), mianderson
> <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > >wrote: > >> On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > >> > I'll just respond here....
> >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > >> > the hospital!
> >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> >> What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> >more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd > >have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you > >wanted that.......
> The Mayo Clinic seems to do just fine with it...
I know how the mayo clinic works(since I was good friends with two current residents there who I still talk to), and it's not completely what you think......
regardless, I dont think the mayo clinic(which one btw?) is a very good example regardless......
> On Nov 3, 12:43 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > > wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > the hospital!
> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> > more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd > > have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you > > wanted that.......
> It would cut down on doctors/anesthesiologist/etc administrative costs > and they in turn could pass the savings on to the hospital.
Not necessarily, doctors/anesthesiologist work for multiple hospitals and will no doubt independently track which patients they serve for each hospital and whether or not the hospitals reimbursed them correctly.
I think your way would work if the hospital paid the doctors/ anesthesiologist at the time services are rendered, then the hospital assume responsibility for collecting payment from the patient.
> On Nov 3, 4:45 pm, BillyZoom <medav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 4:37 pm, mianderson <clay...@excite.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 4:08 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> > > > mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8725274b-2d3a-4f0c- > > > > 9217-40e1b077c...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
> > > > > On Nov 3, 1:32 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote: > > > > >> mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:24e1f018-4ad6-4f39- > > > > >> 9fa7-eb4c179de...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> > > > >> > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't > > > > find....so > > > > >> > I'll just respond here....
> > > > >> > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > >> > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > >> > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > >> > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > >> > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > >> > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > >> > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > >> > the hospital!
> > > > >> > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > > >> I'd prefer they all work for the hospital
> > > > > huh? That would make things more inefficient because then the gi guy > > > > > or cards guy or whatever would have to have 3 more office people to > > > > > separate inpatient from outpatient......
> > > > >> When you hire a general contractor to build you a house, you don't see > > > > >> bills from all his subcontractors.
> > > > > probably because the subcontractors didn't go to school and training > > > > > for a gazillion years either....
> > > > Yeah, I'm willing to bet the general contractor that built the $2 billion > > > > dollar fabrication plant next to where I used to work didn't have any > > > > schooling or training.
> > > maybe he did and maybe he didn't...but I bet the 15 different > > > subcontractors(and the 20 different subcontractors they had) don't > > > have a gazillion years of training.....it's not important anyways. > > > the latter point is.
> > > > > either way, your idea is more inefficient because it would involve an > > > > > elaborate administrative system between the hospital and the > > > > > providers.....
> > > > As opposed to the current system - which has a dozen different eleborate > > > > administrative systems between the patient and each of the dozen > > > > providers...
> > > wtf are you talking about? My current attending is a consult-liason > > > psych....he bills with no administrative costs at all....just do a > > > consult, and then his office/practice bills to the pt/insurer....thats > > > it....
> > > if that was routed through the hospital, you have at least one more > > > step.....and more costs to go with it.
> > > and other specialities that do an inpatient/outpt mix are exactly the > > > same way.....
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> > His office/practice does all their billing work for free? There's no > > software involved?
> sure there is....but he is 50/50 intpatient/oupatient, so he's going > to need that anyways......
> if(under rsfcs borked idea) everything went centrally through the > hospital he would still need to keep that and then there would be more > clerical staff needed through the inpatient connection......
> it's not hard people.
> The practice I'm most familiar with has twice+ as
> > many support staff (excluding nurses - I'm talking non-clinical staff > > only) as doctors.- Hide quoted text -
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You're not understanding - the idea of a doctor being independant and having his own administration is on the way out. You are going to be an E-M-P-L-O-Y-E-E. In fact, if we get this right, eventually there won't be any bills. And you'll be salaried. And bitter. It's going to take a long time, but it will happen. And as for your "world class mecical car" (post drunk much?), jesus bud - you're going into Psychiatry! I understand you want a nice cushy job where you don't get dirty, but you don't really believe you're going to be worth two shits to society, do you?
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:39:17 -0800 (PST), mianderson <clay...@excite.com> > wrote:
> >On Nov 3, 2:35 pm, Dan Bretta <nuda...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Nov 3, 12:43 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > >> > wrote: > >> > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > >> > > > I'll just respond here....
> >> > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > >> > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > >> > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > >> > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > >> > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> >> > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > >> > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > >> > > > the hospital!
> >> > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> >> > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> >> > more administrative/office costs is what is wrong with it......you'd > >> > have massive paperwork issues between hospitals and providers if you > >> > wanted that.......
> >> It would cut down on doctors/anesthesiologist/etc administrative costs > >> and they in turn could pass the savings on to the hospital.
> >so adding one more level of administrative/clerical costs would pass > >on savings? Interesting......
> No. It would cut out a level of administrative and clerical work.
how? How would my mom's anesthes. billing through the hospital(and then the hosp) incorporating that cut out things? Seems to me it would add 1 extra step......
> The Mayo Clinic makes this model work and it is one of the best, if not > THE best hospitals in the world.
ummm yeah......the mayo clinic(in minn at least) is a brilliant example of the kind fo health care reform we need....because every small clinic gets 9 figures in funding a year and is a tertiary care center.......jesus......
> On Nov 3, 2:08 pm, RaginPage <btpage0...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> On Nov 3, 1:54 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > see thats another issue.....medical care cost a lot of money! DEAL >> > WITH IT! Once that assumption is made, then any sort of legislation >> > can be attempted.
>> That's a bone of contention. Those in favor of the reform claim that >> the costs are way over what they could and should be.
> and the $50 steak at shula's I had a few nights ago was over what it > could have been too..but I still had it......tough shit for me....and > tough shit for patients.....
> it is what it is.
For now. What's going on now in Washington is just a first, baby step. It'll be a lot worse in another 10 years, give or take. Eventually the government will take steps to drive costs down, probably a single-payer system with charges fixed to set rates.
AARP-eligible voters >>>>>>>>>>>>>> health care lobby.
Non-AARP-eligible voters paying for all the boomer's Medicare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health care lobby.
Face it, you've signed up to play for St. Ignatius's Elementary School's junior varsity, been scheduled to play the mighty SEC in away games all season, and margin of victory matters.
> On Nov 3, 5:00 pm, Jaybyrd <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 1:37 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 3, 1:21 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Nov 3, 11:46 am, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > earlier kyle(I think) posted a complaint about this I can't find....so > > > > > I'll just respond here....
> > > > > my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > > > > > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > > > > > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > > > > > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > > > > > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
> > > > > Or would you prefer for the surgeon to come to your home and operate > > > > > on your bed? After all, that would cut out the inpatient bill from > > > > > the hospital!
> > > > > I mean you guys just arent making any sense here....
> > > > What is wrong with one itemized bill from the hospital?
> > > because the providers dont work for the hospital!!!! What is hard > > > about that to understand?
> > that depends on the situation. Some larger systems contract with > > groups to provide services and actually own the group practice. They > > can set the rate that the doctors charge and if they want to use their > > hospital, the salaries as well
> Im very aware of this....I know people in those situations....but for > the most part(especially if they dont severely limit services) they > are not cost competitive....or they are semi cost competitive at > best........
Your tying to tell me that group practices are not very competitive with private practices?
On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, mianderson <mianderso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> my question is wtf do you people want? If you go in for say to have > your gallbladder removed, how do you want them to bill? Would you > prefer not to have an anethesiologist? Would you prefer for the > anesthesiologist to perform the surgery instead of the general > surgeon? After all, that would cut down on the number of bills!
Why is this so complicated for you???
I'd like one, concise, itemized, clearly explained bill for what I received and what I am to pay. Why is this so difficult for the "god- complex" doctors to figure out? Supposedly they've had years of training and are smarter than the rest of us, so why can the local mechanic, grocer, restaurant or any service-provider present a single bill and yet the medical community cannot? I don't get a bill from the maitre'd, the chef, the waitstaff, etc. Tap, tap, tap, on the screen and voila, a single itemized bill. And if I have a *gasp* "coupon" (insurance) then that is reflected on the bill as well. If a bank can reflect a purchase on my statement from multiple vendors and provide me with a summary and balance at the end of the month, then certainly the medical community can figure this out.
Which brings up another point when you consider the amount that goes into computer systems and other technology within the field. No additional administrative costs (actually less), electronic communications to the insurance and any other billing entities and groups, etc., is all automated at a reduced cost than in the past. Yet we hear these so-called intelligent people ... "I can't figure it out, it'll cost more, it'll make things more complicated, blah, blah, blah."
But maybe you've hit on something. The system is expensive because in your own words, they cannot get their sh*t together and apparently have *no idea* how to get it together. Good, we have a foundation for reforming the current system without needing to overhaul the entire thing.
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