Web Images News Orkut Groups Scholar Gmail more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
Educationnal examples of homology
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  7 messages - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Alain Bertrand  
View profile  
 More options Nov 5, 9:30 am
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr>
Date: 05 Nov 2009 08:30:28 GMT
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 9:30 am
Subject: Educationnal examples of homology
Hi all,

For educationnal (high school) purposes , I am looking for "good"
exemples of homology at the embryological level and at the level of the
plan of organisation.

Up to now, I was using at both level the limbs, by showing pictures of
adult and embryos with limb buds in Man, Cat and Dolphin  for
embryological homology and the anatomy of the adult limb for homology at
the level of the plan of organisation.
Both are very easy and straight forward for pupils but I wish I could use
two very differents examples.
I don't feel like using the classical exemple of the jaw and the internal
ear because it is not very appealing to pupils.

Thanks for your help.

Alain


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Ron O  
View profile  
 More options Nov 5, 1:56 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 1:56 pm
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
On Nov 5, 2:30 am, Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr> wrote:

Gills, jaw, ear is the most dramatic example that you can give.  I
don't know why the students aren't interested in it.  Limbs are easier
to understand.  If you think the jaw is boring don't use the example
of the tail from fish to the fused bones of the humans to
ichthyosaurs, whales, dinos, birds etc.  There are the tissue layers
of the embryo, as one of the most basic.  You could go through why
birds do not have teeth.  They have the genes to produce teeth, but
the two tissue layers that need to come into contact to form teeth are
separated in bird development.  When you put the two tissues together
by graft you can get teeth formed.  Those are homologous embryonic
tissues.  They just don't interact in the same way in birds that they
do in mammals and reptiles.  You can probably look up chickens with
teeth on the web.

Ron Okimoto


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
TomS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 5, 2:29 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: TomS <TomS_mem...@newsguy.com>
Date: 5 Nov 2009 05:29:28 -0800
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
"On 05 Nov 2009 08:30:28 GMT, in article
<4af28d24$0$890$ba4ac...@news.orange.fr>, Alain Bertrand stated..."

Don't you mean "middle ear"?

How about the examples in Neil Shubin "Your Inner Fish: A journey
into the 3.5-billion-year history of the human body", Pantheon
Books, 2008.

Yes, he does mention the middle ear, but also several other things
like hiccups and hernias.

--
---Tom S.
the failure to nail currant jelly to a wall is not due to the nail; it is due to
the currant jelly.
Theodore Roosevelt, Letter to William Thayer, 1915 July 2


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Alain Bertrand  
View profile  
 More options Nov 5, 10:03 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr>
Date: 05 Nov 2009 21:03:02 GMT
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
Le Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:56:52 -0800, Ron O a écrit :

> Gills, jaw, ear is the most dramatic example that you can give.  I don't
> know why the students aren't interested in it.

I think it is because they don't represent well how they are constituted.
Maybe a video could help, I am going to find one one the net.

If you think the jaw is boring don't use

you mean "why don't you" not "dont" don't you ?
the example of the

> tail from fish to the fused bones of the humans to ichthyosaurs, whales,
> dinos, birds etc

Good idea. Thanks,

.  There are the tissue layers of the embryo, as one of

> the most basic.  You could go through why birds do not have teeth.  They
> have the genes to produce teeth, but the two tissue layers that need to
> come into contact to form teeth are separated in bird development.  When
> you put the two tissues together by graft you can get teeth formed.
> Those are homologous embryonic tissues.  They just don't interact in the
> same way in birds that they do in mammals and reptiles.  You can
> probably look up chickens with teeth on the web.

Interesting too, but not directly for this problem.

Thanks again,

Alain


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Alain Bertrand  
View profile  
 More options Nov 5, 10:07 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr>
Date: 05 Nov 2009 21:07:44 GMT
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
Le Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:29:28 -0800, TomS a écrit :

> Don't you mean "middle ear"?

Yessss...

> How about the examples in Neil Shubin "Your Inner Fish: A journey into
> the 3.5-billion-year history of the human body", Pantheon Books, 2008.

> Yes, he does mention the middle ear, but also several other things like
> hiccups and hernias.

Seems that I can get it even here. Thanks for the tip.

Alain


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Desertphile  
View profile  
 More options Nov 6, 3:09 am
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:09:31 -0700
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 3:09 am
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
On 05 Nov 2009 08:30:28 GMT, Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr>
wrote:

> Hi all,

> For educationnal (high school) purposes , I am looking for "good"
> exemples of homology at the embryological level and at the level of the
> plan of organisation.

Read the book "Your Inner Fish:" you'll learn of a dozen and more.

> Up to now, I was using at both level the limbs, by showing pictures of
> adult and embryos with limb buds in Man, Cat and Dolphin  for
> embryological homology and the anatomy of the adult limb for homology at
> the level of the plan of organisation.
> Both are very easy and straight forward for pupils but I wish I could use
> two very differents examples.
> I don't feel like using the classical exemple of the jaw and the internal
> ear because it is not very appealing to pupils.

> Thanks for your help.

> Alain

--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz

    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
chris thompson  
View profile  
 More options Nov 6, 4:16 pm
Newsgroups: talk.origins
From: chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:16:32 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 4:16 pm
Subject: Re: Educationnal examples of homology
On Nov 5, 4:07 pm, Alain Bertrand <monprenom...@free.fr> wrote:

Shubin also wrote an excellent article for Natural History on this
topic. It's free at their web site:

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/04971/fish-out-of-water

Chris


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
End of messages
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google