>Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:46:58 -0800 (PST), in talk.origins >> Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote in >> <236b2419-8a5e-4343-b640-d354e2953...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> >> >So it can be divisible by 10. Wasn't that what the Enlightenment was >> >all about?
>> >Mitchell Coffey
>> The ten-day week was a real hit. >Sure, with the bosses,
I dunno. We could do it with six days a week off... ;-)
>>>> >> >> On Nov 1, 12:07?pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote: >>>> >> >... >>>> >> >> > >> >The stature of a man cannot be measured in >>>> >> >> > >> >millimeters. CF "The >>>> >> >> > >> >measure >>>> >> >> > >> >of a man cannot be found on a yardstick." Henri >>>> >> >> > >> >Marie Raymond de >>>> >> >> > >> >Toulouse-Lautrec-Monfa said something to that >>>> >> >> > >> >effect.
>>>> >> >> > >> Of course it can't be found on a yardstick. ?He >>>> >> >> > >> said nothing >>>> >> >> > >> about finding it using a rational set of measuring >>>> >> >> > >> units. >>>> >> >> > >The measure of a man is given in ISO units.
>>>> >> >> > Exactly. ?And yards are not ISO. ?They aren't even so >>>> >> >> > so. ?USians >>>> >> >> > don't understand how alone they are in the world with >>>> >> >> > their >>>> >> >> > Fahrenheit, miles, quarts, and stupid screw threads.
>>>> >> >> > Reminds me of how the Ottoman Empire resisted the >>>> >> >> > printing press. >>>> >> >> > Scribes were good enough for their grandfathers and >>>> >> >> > so scribes were >>>> >> >> > good enough for them.
>>>> >> >> > They fell so far back in education that the once >>>> >> >> > overwhelming empire >>>> >> >> > became irrelevant.
>>>> >> >> What your two cases share is that old assumption of >>>> >> >> empires, that once >>>> >> >> an empire always an empire, meaning they'd always be >>>> >> >> able to impose >>>> >> >> their standards on the rest of the World, or the >>>> >> >> right-thinking part >>>> >> >> of it.
>>>> >> >So we can expect America to become metricated in about >>>> >> >another 20 years >>>> >> >then, right?
>>>> >> It's been that way since I was a kid. 20 years from now. >>>> >> For the >>>> >> foreseeable future.
>>>> >Ah, then about when power production from hydrogen fusion >>>> >becomes >>>> >economically possible.
>>>> It is, or almost, economically possible right now. It is >>>> called >>>> using solar panels... ;-)
>>>I thought solar thermal was closer, but that's technically >>>correct, >>>although a violation of normal language to use "fusion power" >>>in that >>>sense.
>> How do you think we would get energy from fusion power? The >> usual proposal is to convert the heat generated into power >> using conventional heat engines. That's how fission power >> plants >> work.
>> Direct conversion using solar cells converts the heat directly >> to >> electricity.
>> -- >> --- Paul J. Gans
>There are a number of problems with solar panels. One is >obvious - it won't keep you warm at night, sans batteries. A >less-well known one which tips the scale toward solar thermal is >that only about 10% of the incident light is absorbed & turned >into electricity (with current technology at least). Another is >that as I understand it, there is a looming shortage of the heavy >metals that go into the panels to produce the photoelectrons. >Silica, while it competes with the computer industry, is unlikely >to run out soon, given it's #2 in elemental abundance on Earth. >Ross Macfarlane >whose solar panels produce 2.2 MW-Hrs per year
I wasn't complaining about solar thermal. I was just noting that fusion power would use the heat produced (i.e. thermal radiation) just as fission power does. And as you point out, we already use fusion energy in several ways.
We'll not lack for solar energy for a looooong time. Most of it simply radiates out into space. We need to catch that, pelletize it, and bring it back to earth and use it. Not practical now, but in a thousand years?...
In article <13dac3bd-541d-4502-975d-4864fcf3a...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote:
> I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the > Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway > - quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's > dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace > prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
Hey a Norwegin descended boss of mine explained that there were Norwegians everywhere because they had a big merchant marine and when wars broke out they were stranded where they were. Having built a life they did not want to go back to Norway when the war was over.
The other thing is that one does not in general go to sea, if one has other opportunities and Norway was poor for a long time by standards of the US or Argentina.
-- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > >Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:46:58 -0800 (PST), in talk.origins > >> Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote in > >> <236b2419-8a5e-4343-b640-d354e2953...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
> >> >So it can be divisible by 10. Wasn't that what the Enlightenment was > >> >all about?
> >> >Mitchell Coffey
> >> The ten-day week was a real hit.
> >Sure, with the bosses,
> I dunno. We could do it with six days a week off... ;-)
Actually with a three day weekend every week, most would go for it.
(2/7)<(3/10) but not by much. [.3=(2.1/7)] so 5% more time off.
-- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
> In article > <ca05fcc0-8f86-401b-92da-4545b8a60...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote:
> > On Oct 31, 4:04 pm, John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote: > > > In article > > > <27120c5f-4866-4f6b-8ac3-d217b0432...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > > > > On Oct 31, 2:50 pm, John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote: > > > > > In article > > > > > <dced5e48-0796-457d-b1c5-52307772a...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > MitchellCoffey<m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 31, 12:30 pm, Michael Siemon <mlsie...@sonic.net> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <proto-0DDED0.10550731102...@news.panix.com>, > > > > > > > Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > You are just trying to push biology. You want chemical > > > > > > > > > > weapons? > > > > > > > > > > I'm holding out for the math bomb.
> > > > > > > > > Meyer-Vietoris sequences at 12 paces? Riemann Hypothesis or > > > > > > > > > death? > > > > > > > > > Category Theory of Sets? Name your weapon!!!
> > > > > > > > Zorn's Lemmon!
> > > > > > > Abelian Grapes!
> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. It broke up when we > > > > > > discovered > > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't communicative.
> > > > > You Lie!
> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
> > > But you missed my math joke.
> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not to proud > > to have a joke explained to me.
> > Mitchell
> * > The Abelian Grape was the answer to the riddle: "What's purple and > commutes?"
> earle > *
Or Apelian Grape.
-- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. It broke up when we > >> >> >> > > > > > discovered > >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't > >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not to > >> >> >> > proud > >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
> >> >> >> > Mitchell
> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. > >> >> >> Sadly.
> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. > >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they > >> >knew it. Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you > >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the > >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway > >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's > >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace > >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We > can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on > radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal > military speeds.
> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
> Be afraid, be very afraid.
We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the Norse.
-- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
> >>> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:39:07 -0800, Susan S wrote:
> >>> > In talk.origins I read this message from John Wilkins > >>> > <j...@wilkins.id.au>:
> >>> >>In article <P8mdna0HosLNNXDXnZ2dnUVZ_qRi4...@earthlink.com>, Steven L. > >>> >><sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>> >>> Susan S wrote: > >>> >>> > Tentative plan: East Bay folks meet at JW's hotel Saturday, Nov. 7 > >>> >>> > at > >>> >>> > JW's hotel (if that suits him). Take ferry across the bay to Ferry > >>> >>> > Building and bump into City dwellers by design or accident.
> >>> >>> > I suggest the Ferry Building because that is a place I know. > >>> >>> > Locals, > >>> >>> > if you have a better idea(s), suggest it.
> >>> >>> > Planning to attend:
> >>> >>> > John Wilkins > >>> >>> > Susan Silberstein > >>> >>> > Michael Siemon > >>> >>> > Hamish Reid (possibly) > >>> >>> > John Harshman (possibly)
> >>> >>> > Susan Silberstein
> >>> >>> Gee, you all live in the Bay Area.
> >>> >>> Why am I not surprised.
> >>> >>> This is the first time I learned this. But somehow, I never thought > >>> >>> you > >>> >>> all lived in Mississippi or Idaho.
> >>> >>Well I live in Sydney right now, and Susan lives in LA or somewhere > >>> >>down > >>> >>that way (Oakland? I'm not good on CA geography). John and Michael live > >>> >>in the Bay Area. I suppose Hamish does too...
> >>> > I'm 500 miles south of Oakland, so you are not entirely wrong, but not > >>> > even close to right.
> >>> That puts you in the Pacific Ocean about 200 miles from the closest land. > >>> Houseboat? Or is my map missing an island?
> >>"South" in CA speak means "parallel with the coastline" to the right as > >>one drives from the Bay Area or LaLaLand along the Pacific Coast. :-) > >>Highway. :-)
> >Just as "north" in Manhattan means parallel to the avenue streets. > >It really isn't north at all.
> More amusingly east in Manhattan means parallel to the street streets, > which means facing east is facing south. Which means that facing > Jerusalem is not facing Jerusalem. (Muslims tend to use maps to point > the direction and so do face Mecca.)
After a glance at a map I would say Manhattan East is closer to east south east rather than south. Goggles, ah, offset by 28.9 degrees.
> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote: > >Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > >> >On Nov 2, 12:48 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote: > >> >> Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > >> >> >On Nov 1, 8:17 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > >> >> >> >On Oct 31, 10:13 pm, Michael Siemon <mlsie...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied)is not a household word. > >> >>Sadly
> >> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
> >> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. > >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they > >> >> >knew it. Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you > >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
> >> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
> >> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the > >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway > >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's > >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace > >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
> >> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We > >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on > >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal > >> military speeds.
> >> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
> >> Be afraid, be very afraid.
> >Just point them to the edge of the world, > >and they won't be able to resist the temptation > >to sail over it,
> I strongly suggest that they knew that the earth was round.
What's good enough for Eric should be good enough for any Viking.
>>>>> >> >> On Nov 1, 12:07?pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote: >>>>> >> >... >>>>> >> >> > >> >The stature of a man cannot be measured in >>>>> >> >> > >> >millimeters. CF "The >>>>> >> >> > >> >measure >>>>> >> >> > >> >of a man cannot be found on a yardstick." Henri >>>>> >> >> > >> >Marie Raymond de >>>>> >> >> > >> >Toulouse-Lautrec-Monfa said something to that >>>>> >> >> > >> >effect.
>>>>> >> >> > >> Of course it can't be found on a yardstick. ?He >>>>> >> >> > >> said nothing >>>>> >> >> > >> about finding it using a rational set of measuring >>>>> >> >> > >> units. >>>>> >> >> > >The measure of a man is given in ISO units.
>>>>> >> >> > Exactly. ?And yards are not ISO. ?They aren't even so >>>>> >> >> > so. ?USians >>>>> >> >> > don't understand how alone they are in the world with >>>>> >> >> > their >>>>> >> >> > Fahrenheit, miles, quarts, and stupid screw threads.
>>>>> >> >> > Reminds me of how the Ottoman Empire resisted the >>>>> >> >> > printing press. >>>>> >> >> > Scribes were good enough for their grandfathers and >>>>> >> >> > so scribes were >>>>> >> >> > good enough for them.
>>>>> >> >> > They fell so far back in education that the once >>>>> >> >> > overwhelming empire >>>>> >> >> > became irrelevant.
>>>>> >> >> What your two cases share is that old assumption of >>>>> >> >> empires, that once >>>>> >> >> an empire always an empire, meaning they'd always be >>>>> >> >> able to impose >>>>> >> >> their standards on the rest of the World, or the >>>>> >> >> right-thinking part >>>>> >> >> of it.
>>>>> >> >So we can expect America to become metricated in about >>>>> >> >another 20 years >>>>> >> >then, right?
>>>>> >> It's been that way since I was a kid. 20 years from now. >>>>> >> For the >>>>> >> foreseeable future.
>>>>> >Ah, then about when power production from hydrogen fusion >>>>> >becomes >>>>> >economically possible.
>>>>> It is, or almost, economically possible right now. It is >>>>> called >>>>> using solar panels... ;-)
>>>>I thought solar thermal was closer, but that's technically >>>>correct, >>>>although a violation of normal language to use "fusion power" >>>>in that >>>>sense.
>>> How do you think we would get energy from fusion power? The >>> usual proposal is to convert the heat generated into power >>> using conventional heat engines. That's how fission power >>> plants >>> work.
>>> Direct conversion using solar cells converts the heat directly >>> to >>> electricity.
Not quite right. Solar panels are photovoltaic, not photoelectric. In the former, EM energy is absorbed, electrons move from one area to anotherinside the material, and a potential difference (voltage) is created. In the latter, EM radiation is absorbed and then electrons are emitted from the material.
>>> -- >>> --- Paul J. Gans
>>There are a number of problems with solar panels. One is >>obvious - it won't keep you warm at night, sans batteries. A >>less-well known one which tips the scale toward solar thermal is >>that only about 10% of the incident light is absorbed & turned >>into electricity (with current technology at least). Another is >>that as I understand it, there is a looming shortage of the heavy >>metals that go into the panels to produce the photoelectrons.
Again, not photoelectrons. Those would be particles emitted from the material due to the photoelectric effect.
>>Silica, while it competes with the computer industry, is unlikely >>to run out soon, given it's #2 in elemental abundance on Earth.
>>Ross Macfarlane >>whose solar panels produce 2.2 MW-Hrs per year
>I wasn't complaining about solar thermal. I was just noting >that fusion power would use the heat produced (i.e. thermal >radiation) just as fission power does. And as you point out, >we already use fusion energy in several ways.
>We'll not lack for solar energy for a looooong time. Most >of it simply radiates out into space. We need to catch that, >pelletize it, and bring it back to earth and use it. Not >practical now, but in a thousand years?...
>> I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the >> Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway >> - quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's >> dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace >> prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
>Hey a Norwegin descended boss of mine explained that there were >Norwegians everywhere because they had a big merchant marine and when >wars broke out they were stranded where they were. Having built a life >they did not want to go back to Norway when the war was over.
>The other thing is that one does not in general go to sea, if one has >other opportunities and Norway was poor for a long time by standards of >the US or Argentina.
>> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. ??It broke up when we >> >> >> >> > > > > > discovered >> >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't >> >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
>> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
>> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
>> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
>> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
>> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not to >> >> >> >> > proud >> >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
>> >> >> >> > Mitchell
>> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. >> >> >> >> Sadly.
>> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
>> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they >> >> >knew it. ??Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
>> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
>> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
>> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal >> military speeds.
>> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
>> Be afraid, be very afraid. >We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the >Norse.
Logic? To a berserker? They don't care about no steenkeen logic. That is, if they even deign to talk to you, which I think is swede.
Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote: >In article <011120091043124861%j...@wilkins.id.au>, > John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote: >> Well I live in Sydney right now, and Susan lives in LA or somewhere >> down that way (Oakland? I'm not good on CA geography) >That is the wurst take on California geography I have ever heard. It >would be like putting San Diego on the other side of the bay from San >Francisco.
In article <proto-A9B26D.13143904112...@news.panix.com>, Walter Bushell
<pr...@panix.com> wrote: > In article <011120091043124861%j...@wilkins.id.au>, > John Wilkins <j...@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
> > Well I live in Sydney right now, and Susan lives in LA or somewhere > > down that way (Oakland? I'm not good on CA geography)
> That is the wurst take on California geography I have ever heard. It > would be like putting San Diego on the other side of the bay from San > Francisco.
> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. ??It broke up > when we > >> >> >> >> > > > > > discovered > >> >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't > >> >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
> >> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
> >> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
> >> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
> >> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
> >> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not > to > >> >> >> >> > proud > >> >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
> >> >> >> >> > Mitchell
> >> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. > >> >> >> >> Sadly.
> >> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
> >> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. > >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they > >> >> >knew it. ??Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you > >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
> >> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
> >> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the > >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway > >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's > >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace > >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
> >> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We > >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on > >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal > >> military speeds.
> >> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
> >> Be afraid, be very afraid.
> >We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the > >Norse.
> Logic? To a berserker? They don't care about no steenkeen logic. > That is, if they even deign to talk to you, which I think is swede.
They'd be more likely to roger you. With a phallacy.
> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. ??It broke up > >> >> >> >> > > > > > when we > >> >> >> >> > > > > > discovered > >> >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't > >> >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
> >> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
> >> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
> >> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
> >> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
> >> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not > >> >> >> >> > to > >> >> >> >> > proud > >> >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
> >> >> >> >> > Mitchell
> >> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. > >> >> >> >> Sadly.
> >> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
> >> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. > >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they > >> >> >knew it. ??Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you > >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
> >> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
> >> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the > >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway > >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's > >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace > >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
> >> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We > >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on > >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal > >> military speeds.
> >> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
> >> Be afraid, be very afraid.
> >We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the > >Norse.
> Logic? To a berserker? They don't care about no steenkeen logic. > That is, if they even deign to talk to you, which I think is swede.
But a logic bomb stops them from thinking, thus they don't exist. Seen any berserkers' lately?
-- A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. ??It broke up >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > when we >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > discovered >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
>> >> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
>> >> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
>> >> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
>> >> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
>> >> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not >> >> >> >> >> > to >> >> >> >> >> > proud >> >> >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
>> >> >> >> >> > Mitchell
>> >> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. >> >> >> >> >> Sadly.
>> >> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
>> >> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. >> >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they >> >> >> >knew it. ??Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you >> >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
>> >> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
>> >> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the >> >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway >> >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's >> >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace >> >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
>> >> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We >> >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on >> >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal >> >> military speeds.
>> >> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
>> >> Be afraid, be very afraid.
>> >We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the >> >Norse.
>> Logic? To a berserker? They don't care about no steenkeen logic. >> That is, if they even deign to talk to you, which I think is swede. >But a logic bomb stops them from thinking, thus they don't exist. Seen >any berserkers' lately?
Oh yeah. Politics is full of them. And then there is Faux News. Those guys RANT.
Michael Siemon wrote: > In article <oohue5h2u61o5qc9b0e7kj38aqul3th...@4ax.com>, > Susan S <otoeremovet...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ...
> > As you wish; who can resist - Indian pizza for lunch it is. Michael > > Siemon will post ferry and other transit information.
> > This plan is for East Bay folks to meet at JW's hotel in time to leave > > for the ferry at 11am. Removethis from my email for address and my phone > > number; let's meet in the hotel lobby. We should meet anyone already in > > San Francisco at the restaurant unless they want to meet the ferry. The > > time will be however long it takes us to get there from Oakland. You > > know, whatever.
> > So far, we have one car for transport from the hotel to the ferry. Can > > we get a final count so I know if we need another one?
> > John Wilkins - East Bay > > Susan Silberstein - EB > > Michael Siemon - EB > > Hamish Reid - EB > > John Harshman - SF > > Cubist (Quentin Long) - San Jose (South Bay)
> Six is too many for my one car (5 works, but is cozy in the back seat). > Either one or two of Hamish, John H. or Quentin might consider driving > to the Ferry terminal in Jack London Square, or BART to Oakland 12th St. > and walking to the terminal from there. I think Hamish said he's in > Sacramento, so it might make a difference just how he is getting to > the East Bay for this. If he's driving, both of us could descend on > the hotel to torment John before leaving...
> We should _leave_ the hotel (Downtown Berkeley Inn, on Bancroft at > Milvia) at 11:00 in order to take the 11:30 ferry to SF, scheduled to > arrive at noon. I then propose we wander around the Ferry Building and > Farmers Market for about half an hour and head to Zante's for lunch. > (See menu at <http://www.zantespizza.com/menu.htm>) arriving there at > 1:00 or so, depending on how much time we spend at the Ferry Building. > Ferry tickets are $6.25 each way (no round-trip discount), purchased > on board. BART fare from Embarcadero (near the Ferry Building) to 24th > and Mission is $1.75.
> There are return ferries from SF to Oakland at 3:45 or 5:15. If we do > not spend more than 2 hours at Zante's we would probably get back in > time for the 3:45 boat -- but we could also return to the East Bay via > BART at any time, or hang out at a coffee shop or bar or other venue in > the Ferry Building if we miss the 3:45 boat, so I don't think we need > to feel rushed at Zante's. BART fares from 24th and Mission to the East > Bay (Oakland/Berkeley) range from $3.35 (to downtown Oakland) to $3.80 > (to downtown Berkeley). I suspect that the actuality will be descent > with modifications from the above...
Quentin Long here. Given the above schedule, I believe I'll meet all y'all at the Ferry Building at noon (or thereabouts). See you there!
In talk.origins I read this message from Cubist <xub...@gmail.com>:
>> There are return ferries from SF to Oakland at 3:45 or 5:15. If we do >> not spend more than 2 hours at Zante's we would probably get back in >> time for the 3:45 boat -- but we could also return to the East Bay via >> BART at any time, or hang out at a coffee shop or bar or other venue in >> the Ferry Building if we miss the 3:45 boat, so I don't think we need >> to feel rushed at Zante's. BART fares from 24th and Mission to the East >> Bay (Oakland/Berkeley) range from $3.35 (to downtown Oakland) to $3.80 >> (to downtown Berkeley). I suspect that the actuality will be descent >> with modifications from the above... > Quentin Long here. Given the above schedule, I believe I'll meet >all y'all at the Ferry Building at noon (or thereabouts). See you >there!
Will you be wearing a funny hat so that we may know you? Send me your phone number or ask for mine in email and we can call you when we get off the ferry.
<otoeremovet...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > In talk.origins I read this message from Cubist <xub...@gmail.com>:
> >> There are return ferries from SF to Oakland at 3:45 or 5:15. If we do > >> not spend more than 2 hours at Zante's we would probably get back in > >> time for the 3:45 boat -- but we could also return to the East Bay via > >> BART at any time, or hang out at a coffee shop or bar or other venue in > >> the Ferry Building if we miss the 3:45 boat, so I don't think we need > >> to feel rushed at Zante's. BART fares from 24th and Mission to the East > >> Bay (Oakland/Berkeley) range from $3.35 (to downtown Oakland) to $3.80 > >> (to downtown Berkeley). I suspect that the actuality will be descent > >> with modifications from the above... > > Quentin Long here. Given the above schedule, I believe I'll meet > >all y'all at the Ferry Building at noon (or thereabouts). See you > >there!
> Will you be wearing a funny hat so that we may know you? Send me your > phone number or ask for mine in email and we can call you when we get > off the ferry.
> Quentin Long here. Given the above schedule, I believe I'll meet > all y'all at the Ferry Building at noon (or thereabouts). See you > there!
It appears then that the ferry trip will just be John, Susan and me. If by any chance we do not make contact at the Ferry Building, you could head to Zante (3489 Mission St). I'll also have my cell phone with me, so as Susan also suggested, you can email me with your number or ask for mine (email in header is not munged).
>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > I used to belong to an Abelian group. ??It broke up >> when we >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > discovered >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > we had nothing to say to each other; we weren't >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > communicative.
>> >> >> >> >> > > > > You Lie!
>> >> >> >> >> > > > Do they even have airports in Indiana?
>> >> >> >> >> > > Turns out they do. Who knew?
>> >> >> >> >> > > But you missed my math joke.
>> >> >> >> >> > That I do, beyond a vague sense of what's coming, but I'm not >> to >> >> >> >> >> > proud >> >> >> >> >> > to have a joke explained to me.
>> >> >> >> >> > Mitchell
>> >> >> >> >> Sophus Lie (and the groups he studied) is not a household word. >> >> >> >> >> Sadly.
>> >> >> >> >Neither is Axel Leijonhufvud.
>> >> >> >> Neither is Paul Gans, more's the pity. >> >> >> >Ah!, but households would know how to pronounce your name, if they >> >> >> >knew it. ??Beside, you're not Norwegian; in return for fame would you >> >> >> >submit to a life pining for the fjords?
>> >> >> Do you mean that there is a fjord in my fjuture?
>> >> >I don't know, Paul, I really don't. All I know, Paul, is that the >> >> >Norwegians are suddenly - suddenly! - popping in up all over. Norway >> >> >- quiet country, keeps to itself... ordinarily. Now all a sudden it's >> >> >dead Norwegian mathematicians, living Norwegian economists, peace >> >> >prizes, parrot jokes, the lot! I don't know, Paul, I don't know...
>> >> Our churches and banks are about to be looted by Vikings... We >> >> can't stop them. Their wooden longboats don't show up well on >> >> radar at all and they are hard to spot from the air at normal >> >> military speeds.
>> >> And armored vests don't do much against a Viking hand ax.
>> >> Be afraid, be very afraid.
>> >We'll stop them with logic bombs, thus putting Descartes before the >> >Norse.
>> Logic? To a berserker? They don't care about no steenkeen logic. >> That is, if they even deign to talk to you, which I think is swede. >They'd be more likely to roger you. With a phallacy.
> On Nov 2, 5:20 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > > Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > > > On Nov 2, 3:10 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > > > > Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 2, 3:26 am, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote: > > > > > > Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Mitchell Coffey <m.cof...@starpower.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >On Nov 1, 12:07 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Reminds me of how the Ottoman Empire resisted the printing > > > > > > > >> press. > > > > > > > >> Scribes were good enough for their grandfathers and so scribes > > > > > > > >> were > > > > > > > >> good enough for them.
> > > > > > > >> They fell so far back in education that the once overwhelming > > > > > > > >> empire became irrelevant.
> > > > > > > >What your two cases share is that old assumption of empires, > > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > >once an empire always an empire, meaning they'd always be able > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > >impose their standards on the rest of the World, or the > > > > > > > >right-thinking part of it.
> > > > > > > Yup. And the rest of the world isn't buying "English" units > > > > > > > any longer.
> > > > > > Empires come and go, (some) standards last. > > > > > > (don't repeat chariots and shuttles here) > > > > > > The world is still buying its pipe fittings > > > > > > with threads dating to the heyday of the British Empire, > > > > > > even though the French insist on giving them a metric name,
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