OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
1. In your opinion, did God create other worlds with life on them? ("Other worlds" to include other other universes)
2. If so, did He populate them with men? The issue is "in His image and likeness." Presumably, if He created mankind thus, the argument is that He would create all sentient beings exactly the same. Why not?
3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man to have dominion over.
4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of the same?
> 1. In your opinion, did God create other worlds with life on them? > ("Other worlds" to include other other universes)
> 2. If so, did He populate them with men? The issue is "in His > image and likeness." Presumably, if He created mankind thus, > the argument is that He would create all sentient beings exactly > the same. Why not?
> 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man > to have dominion over.
> 4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He > has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He > did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
> 5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that > God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
> 6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of > the same?
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
<ap...@email.com> wrote: >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
> > 1. In your opinion, did God create other worlds with life on them? > > ("Other worlds" to include other other universes)
> > 2. If so, did He populate them with men? The issue is "in His > > image and likeness." Presumably, if He created mankind thus, > > the argument is that He would create all sentient beings exactly > > the same. Why not?
> > 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My > > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man > > to have dominion over.
> > 4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He > > has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He > > did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
> > 5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that > > God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
> > 6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of > > the same?- Hide quoted text -
On Nov 7, 7:34 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
> <ap...@email.com> wrote: > >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
On 7 Nov, 01:24, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right? > 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man > to have dominion over.
perhaps he populated them with other sorts of people that had minds and souls. But presumably a YEC doesn't believe in extra-solar planets
On Nov 7, 10:27 am, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 7 Nov, 01:24, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right? > > 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My > > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man > > to have dominion over.
> perhaps he populated them with other sorts of people that had minds > and souls. But presumably a YEC doesn't believe in extra-solar planets
I remember one of Pat Robertson's curious statements a few years ago on that topic. He felt that God only created life on *this* planet, and that if life existed elsewhere, it must have been created by Satan. Adding to that, he said that anybody trying to prove the existence of life on other planets was therefor in league with Satan, and should be put to death by stoning. Not that he was anti-science or anything..........
<allseei...@usa.com> wrote: >On Nov 7, 7:34 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> <ap...@email.com> wrote: >> >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>> >I'm not a YEC
>> Then why did you reply?
>Because I was mentioned in the post.
>Can't you read?
You weren't mentioned in the subject, nor were you requested to reply in the body. Can't *you* read?
> On Nov 7, 10:27 am, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> > wrote:
> > On 7 Nov, 01:24, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right? > > > 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My > > > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man > > > to have dominion over.
> > perhaps he populated them with other sorts of people that had minds > > and souls. But presumably a YEC doesn't believe in extra-solar planets
> I remember one of Pat Robertson's curious statements a few years ago > on that topic. He felt that God only created life on *this* planet, > and that if life existed elsewhere, it must have been created by > Satan. Adding to that, he said that anybody trying to prove the > existence of life on other planets was therefor in league with Satan, > and should be put to death by stoning. Not that he was anti-science > or anything..........
Pat Robertson is a false teacher. He has his reward already.
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>I'm not a YEC
But you are a nutter just the same.
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
That 3.5% actually means 25%...
That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
That wars have been fought because some scientific finding discredited some facet of some religion...
To have a "higher education" than most posters to this news group...
To understand how geologists determine the age of any given sample of rock...
That trilobites were Cambrian mammals... [that one still makes me laugh]
And that he has "created genes" and not evolved ape genes...
That linguists have traced all the world's languages to the Middle East region and back to around the same time as the bible claims Noah and his sons rebuilt mankind.
Claimed that talk.origin's moderator was a troll.
Claimed cigarettes do not cause cancer.
Now, I ask you, is this the sort of guy you would give an credence to? Certainly I don't.
> On Nov 7, 7:30 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
> > I'm not a YEC
> I find this puzzling. In another thread > you cite a "mountain of evidence" for Noah's > flood, which I associate with the YEC point > of view.
> OK, you're not a YEC. Nonetheless, I'd be > interested in your answers to 4, 5, and 6.
> Tim
I have a theory that there was two separate creations on earth.(maybe more). Each happens at the beginning of new eon, or earth age. If I am correct, the second creation is described after the original 6 days of creation on the 8th day or latter.\\
Now, We really do not know how long a day is to God however. The bible mentions in two places that..., to God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. But that does not necessarily mean a thousand years IMHO. Stating such such may be just a way to illustrate that a day to God is a very long time.
If I am correct and there was 2 separate creations, one resulted in the earth and all of it's processes and diversity while the second creation much latter with a garden and Adam as described; This would reconcile much between science and what books like the bible have recorded.
4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
Well, we really do not know how (or if) God marks time. IOW we could have been created just a moment ago from God's perspective.
5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
For other life? Yes. Why? Because God said for the life to expand and fill the earth "after his own kind"; which allows the created species to evolve after his own kind. Plus, variation within a species has been observed. We can even manipulate it.
For man? No. Why? Because the bible gives a pretty clear outline of how God created man already. Couple that with my separate creation theory of a specific garden and Adam around 15,000 years ago and God's version it is quite plausible. Plus, nothing has ever been observed to diverge. IOW no one has observed a population of fish gradually and slowly give rise to something that was clearly no longer a fish.
BTW, If Adam lived then so did Noah and subsequently there had to be a Noah's flood. I believe Noah was 6 generations after Adam in the genealogy.
6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of the same?
I have zero faith in most of the religious leaders today and even less tolerance for organized religion. It is my opinion that organized religion keeps people separated from knowing the real truth about God. However, I reluctantly support the concept of religion because it does have some values for society.
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:21:34 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
> <allseei...@usa.com> wrote: > >On Nov 7, 7:34 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
> >> <ap...@email.com> wrote: > >> >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > >> >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
> >> >I'm not a YEC
> >> Then why did you reply?
> >Because I was mentioned in the post.
> >Can't you read?
> You weren't mentioned in the subject, nor were you requested to reply > in the body. Can't *you* read?- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
If you had the slightest perception skills you would know the OP was directed at me in an indirect manor. But the YEC thing needed to be cleared up before my reply would make any sense.
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
<ap...@email.com> wrote: >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>I'm not a YEC
Quite right.
You are a pathological liar.
You lie so much, and self-contradict so often, that it is impossible to ascertain your position on anything.
However, you do provide ample evidence of your astounding imbecility.
<ap...@email.com> wrote: >On Nov 7, 10:29 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:21:34 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
>> <allseei...@usa.com> wrote: >> >On Nov 7, 7:34 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: >> >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> >> <ap...@email.com> wrote: >> >> >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> >> >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>> >> >I'm not a YEC
>> >> Then why did you reply?
>> >Because I was mentioned in the post.
>> >Can't you read?
>> You weren't mentioned in the subject, nor were you requested to reply >> in the body. Can't *you* read?- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>If you had the slightest perception skills you would know the OP was >directed at me in an indirect manor. But the YEC thing needed to be >cleared up before my reply would make any sense.
<ap...@email.com> wrote: >On Nov 7, 9:45 am, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@cybertown.com> wrote: >> On Nov 7, 10:27 am, Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> >> wrote:
>> > On 7 Nov, 01:24, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right? >> > > 3. If he did not populate them with men, what was the point? My >> > > reading of Genesis is that lower forms of life were created for man >> > > to have dominion over.
>> > perhaps he populated them with other sorts of people that had minds >> > and souls. But presumably a YEC doesn't believe in extra-solar planets
>> I remember one of Pat Robertson's curious statements a few years ago >> on that topic. He felt that God only created life on *this* planet, >> and that if life existed elsewhere, it must have been created by >> Satan. Adding to that, he said that anybody trying to prove the >> existence of life on other planets was therefor in league with Satan, >> and should be put to death by stoning. Not that he was anti-science >> or anything..........
>Pat Robertson is a false teacher.
That makes two of you.
> He has his reward already.
Again, that makes two.
You just aren't smart enough to realize that you've been suckered, sucker.
> On Nov 7, 10:42 am, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 7:30 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > > > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
> > > I'm not a YEC
> > I find this puzzling. In another thread > > you cite a "mountain of evidence" for Noah's > > flood, which I associate with the YEC point > > of view.
> > OK, you're not a YEC. Nonetheless, I'd be > > interested in your answers to 4, 5, and 6.
> > Tim
> I have a theory that there was two separate creations on earth.(maybe > more). Each happens at the beginning of new eon, or earth age. If I am > correct, the second creation is described after the original 6 days of > creation on the 8th day or latter.\\
> Now, We really do not know how long a day is to God however. The bible > mentions in two places that..., to God a day is like a thousand years > and a thousand years is like a day. But that does not necessarily mean > a thousand years IMHO. Stating such such may be just a way to > illustrate that a day to God is a very long time.
> If I am correct and there was 2 separate creations, one resulted in > the earth and all of it's processes and diversity while the second > creation much latter with a garden and Adam as described; This would > reconcile much between science and what books like the bible have > recorded.
> 4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He > has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He > did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
> Well, we really do not know how (or if) God marks time. IOW we could > have been created just a moment ago from God's perspective.
> 5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that > God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
> For other life? Yes. Why? Because God said for the life to expand and > fill the earth "after his own kind"; which allows the created species > to evolve after his own kind. Plus, variation within a species has > been observed. We can even manipulate it.
> For man? No. Why? Because the bible gives a pretty clear outline of > how God created man already. Couple that with my separate creation > theory of a specific garden and Adam around 15,000 years ago and God's > version it is quite plausible. Plus, nothing has ever been observed to > diverge. IOW no one has observed a population of fish gradually and > slowly give rise to something that was clearly no longer a fish.
> BTW, If Adam lived then so did Noah and subsequently there had to be a > Noah's flood. I believe Noah was 6 generations after Adam in the > genealogy.
> 6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of > the same?
> I have zero faith in most of the religious leaders today and even less > tolerance for organized religion. It is my opinion that organized > religion keeps people separated from knowing the real truth about God.
I certainly agree with this, but perhaps not in the sense you intended.
> However, I reluctantly support the concept of religion because it does > have some values for society.
> Does that answer your question?- Hide quoted text -
>On Nov 7, 10:42 am, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> On Nov 7, 7:30 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
>> > On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>> > I'm not a YEC
>> I find this puzzling. In another thread >> you cite a "mountain of evidence" for Noah's >> flood, which I associate with the YEC point >> of view.
>> OK, you're not a YEC. Nonetheless, I'd be >> interested in your answers to 4, 5, and 6.
>> Tim
>I have a theory that there was two separate creations on earth.(maybe >more). Each happens at the beginning of new eon, or earth age.
You are nuts.
> If I am >correct, the second creation is described after the original 6 days of >creation on the 8th day or latter.\\
>Now, We really do not know how long a day is to God however.
23h 56m 4.09s or less.
> The bible >mentions in two places that..., to God a day is like a thousand years >and a thousand years is like a day.
How it appears to your fictional character is irrelevant - a day is a day.
> But that does not necessarily mean >a thousand years IMHO. Stating such such may be just a way to >illustrate that a day to God is a very long time.
No, a day is a day. End of story. It has a definition that has been understood since the dawn of human understanding. The people who wrote the stories of creation knew exactly what a day was.
>If I am correct
There may well be a first time at some point, but this is not it.
> and there was 2 separate creations, one resulted in >the earth and all of it's processes and diversity while the second >creation much latter with a garden and Adam as described; This would >reconcile much between science and what books like the bible have >recorded.
>4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He >has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He >did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
Genesis is fiction, written by humans.
>Well, we really do not know how (or if) God marks time. IOW we could >have been created just a moment ago from God's perspective.
>5. Is there any scientific evidence that would convince you that >God used evolution as his tool of choice in creating man?
>For other life? Yes. Why? Because God said for the life to expand and >fill the earth "after his own kind"; which allows the created species >to evolve after his own kind. Plus, variation within a species has >been observed. We can even manipulate it.
> For man? No. Why? Because the bible gives a pretty clear outline of >how God created man already.
Genesis is fiction, written by humans.
> Couple that with my separate creation >theory of a specific garden and Adam around 15,000 years ago
Oh! Its 15K now is it? You are not only totally nuts, but you are out of synch with all the other nuts.
>and God's >version it is quite plausible. Plus, nothing has ever been observed to >diverge.
Liar!
> IOW no one has observed a population of fish gradually and >slowly give rise to something that was clearly no longer a fish.
Liar!
>BTW, If Adam lived then so did Noah and subsequently there had to be a >Noah's flood.
Which we know never happened.
> I believe Noah was 6 generations after Adam in the >genealogy.
>6. Is there any religious evidence that would convince you of >the same?
>I have zero faith in most of the religious leaders today and even less >tolerance for organized religion. It is my opinion that organized >religion keeps people separated from knowing the real truth about God.
Translation = Mudbrain has been thrown out of more churches than he has had hot dinners.
>However, I reluctantly support the concept of religion because it does >have some values for society.
>Does that answer your question?
-- Bob.
When D-G made Madman out of clay he forgot to magic the brain. I think that explains everything.
> On Nov 7, 10:42 am, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 7:30 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@email.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both > > > > seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
> > > I'm not a YEC
> > I find this puzzling. In another thread > > you cite a "mountain of evidence" for Noah's > > flood, which I associate with the YEC point > > of view.
> > OK, you're not a YEC. Nonetheless, I'd be > > interested in your answers to 4, 5, and 6.
> > Tim
> I have a theory that there was two separate creations on earth.(maybe > more). Each happens at the beginning of new eon, or earth age. If I am > correct, the second creation is described after the original 6 days of > creation on the 8th day or latter.\\
> Now, We really do not know how long a day is to God however. The bible > mentions in two places that..., to God a day is like a thousand years > and a thousand years is like a day. But that does not necessarily mean > a thousand years IMHO. Stating such such may be just a way to > illustrate that a day to God is a very long time.
This paragraph establishes the fact that you believe that God experiences the passage of time.
> If I am correct and there was 2 separate creations, one resulted in > the earth and all of it's processes and diversity while the second > creation much latter with a garden and Adam as described; This would > reconcile much between science and what books like the bible have > recorded.
> 4. Why did God wait so long to create us? Presumably, since He > has existed forever, He waited an infinite period of time before He > did all the creating detailed in Genesis.
> Well, we really do not know how (or if) God marks time. IOW we could > have been created just a moment ago from God's perspective.
Above, you assert that God does indeed mark time somehow. This is also borne out by the account in Genesis. That being the case, whatever interval God uses, there are an infinite number of such intervals during which God was waiting to create us.
Christian theology purports to tell us what God has on his mind. So, what did He have on his mind for the infinitude of intervals before creation?
Some theologians say that God doesn't experience time -- that he exists outside of time. But there is no reason to suppose this is true, except to avoid the philosophic pitfalls of an eternity extending into the past.
<ap...@email.com> wrote: >On Nov 7, 10:29 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:21:34 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
>> <allseei...@usa.com> wrote: >> >On Nov 7, 7:34 am, raven1 <quoththera...@nevermore.com> wrote: >> >> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:30:35 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
>> >> <ap...@email.com> wrote: >> >> >On Nov 6, 7:24 pm, Tim DeLaney <delaney.timo...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >> OK, many evolutionists answered Adman's similarly titled post both >> >> >> seriously and politely. Turnabout is fair play, right?
>> >> >I'm not a YEC
>> >> Then why did you reply?
>> >Because I was mentioned in the post.
>> >Can't you read?
>> You weren't mentioned in the subject, nor were you requested to reply >> in the body. Can't *you* read?- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>If you had the slightest perception skills you would know the OP was >directed at me in an indirect manor. But the YEC thing needed to be >cleared up before my reply would make any sense.
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 09:54:21 -0800 (PST), All-seeing-I
<ap...@email.com> wrote: > For man? No. Why? Because the bible gives a pretty clear outline of >how God created man already.
Actually, it gives two different accounts; one in which the Elohim create males and females at the same time in their image, the other in which Yahweh, an individual deity, creates Adam as an individual, and fashions Eve later out of one of his ribs after failing to find a suitable mate for him.
>Couple that with my separate creation >theory
Which is a "theory" in the same sense as Miss Ann Elk's "theory about the Brontosaurus"...
>of a specific garden and Adam around 15,000 years ago
From where do you derive this figure?
> and God's >version it is quite plausible.
Which version? And why is it any more plausible than any of the thousands of other creation stories from other religions?
> Plus, nothing has ever been observed to >diverge. IOW no one has observed a population of fish gradually and >slowly give rise to something that was clearly no longer a fish.
Is a chihuahua clearly no longer a wolf? Why or why not?
>BTW, If Adam lived
Which you haven't established.
> then so did Noah
That does not follow.
> and subsequently there had to be a >Noah's flood.
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